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Leftist youth groups conduct street battles with police in Copenhagen
but you still support these psychos for some reason, and you advocate their "return" probably in a violent fashion since you so sarcastically agreed with me...
Originally posted by laurentius
These are not people who would understand to buy things given to them. Obviously you are much smarter.
It was never given to them.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
The Gandhi method wouldnt have worked because people were fighting for a physical space that can actually be destroyed. Gandhis method prevailed because noone could break the spirit of the people, noone could destroy the will and determination of the Indians.
The Gandhian method works whenever you and your opponent share the same moral code, that one of the tenets of your and their moral code dictates that you do not do violence against peaceful protesters, and that your opponent chooses not to follow that moral code and one or more of its tenets, for whatever reason. In this case, all those conditions were satisfied (the City Council were lefties, after all, and the public support they would have attracted would have been ENORMOUS).
And even if the building would have been destroyed, they could have demanded that the new one be handed over to them, or they'd sit there forever (in shifts, of course).
Or they could have appealed to lefties from all over Europe to help them buy up the neighbourhood - let the Christians be in a minority in spite of buying, and STILL be forced, by sheer weight of public opinion, to give them back that new building for free.
Kommentar til rydningen af Ungdomshuset
I går den 1. marts 2007 kl 7.00 satte politiet sine styrker ind for at rydde Jagtvej 69. Det blev en hektisk dag med gadekampe, hærværk og bål på Nørrebro og Christianshavn. I skrivende stund er huset ryddet, men Nørrebro holder vejret idet Ungdomshusets brugere og sympatisører har varslet yderligere optøjer rundt om i København.
Som ejere af bygningen ser det ud til at vi nu endelig, 5 1/2 år efter købet, kan få adgang til vores ejendom. Vi har ventet længe på denne dag og glæder os over at retfærdigheden sejrer i og med at politiet nu håndhæver vores grundlovssikrede ejendomsret.
En lang proces
Siden september 2001 er medlemmer af Faderhuset blevet udsat for verbale trusler, voldelige overfald og adskille hærværksepisoder, som har forvoldt stor gene, både menneskeligt og økonomisk. Desuden er Faderhuset blevet hængt ud i medierne som en farlig fundamentalistisk sekt. Advokat Knud Foldschack m.fl. har forsøgt at skabe et billede af Faderhuset som en bagstræberisk hadefuld organisation, der har forsøgt at komme en blomstrende demokratisk ungdomskultur til livs. Den retoriske tilsmudsning og sminkning af henholdsvis Faderhuset og Ungdomshuset har dog siden urolighederne i december og nu igen 1. marts fået en stadig mere hul og utroværdig klang.
Politisk vold
At miljøet omkring Jagtvej 69 har en meget voldelig og hård kerne af politiske aktivister er nu tydeligt for enhver. Anarkisme er en ideologi, der bevidst tager afstand fra alle former for ydre styring af individer, det være sig regering, politi eller sågar forældres autoritet over deres børn. Det siger sig selv, at mennesker med en sådan ideologi arbejder imod det, at vi som danskere i fællesskab arbejder på at få et samfund til at fungere, hvor vi i gensidig afhængighed retter os efter fælles vedtagne love og regler.
Som danskere er vi vant til fredelige forhold. Politisk vold er ikke en størrelse vi er vant til at forholde os til. Vi er vant til at man kan snakke sig ud af konflikterne og nå til en fælles forståelse. I denne sag forholder vi os som samfund til en størrelse, der ikke vil indrette sig efter ydre styring, og som retfærdiggør vold i sin kamp mod "systemet". Ungdomshusets brugere har med deres krav om et nyt hus til 1 kr. vist, at de gerne vil tage imod samfundets ydelser, men på ingen måde leve op til samfundets krav. De har konsekvent bidt den hånd, der har fodret dem. De fleste danskere sætter pris på værdier som næstekærlighed og tolerance overfor anderledes tænkende. Vores trygge kår i Danmark har netop givet os overskud til at sætte disse værdier i højsædet. Problemet er, at når vi står overfor politisk motiveret vold skal der en resolut, handlekraftig øvrighed til at tackle problemerne. Vi kan ikke være så tolerante, at vi lader destruktive kræfter få frit løb.
Vigtigheden af en øvrighed
Som kristen kirke bygger vi på det bibelske syn på øvrigheden, som vi bl.a. finder i Romerbrevet kap. 13, vers 1-2
Alle skal underordne sig under de myndigheder, som står over dem,
for der findes ingen myndighed, som ikke er fra Gud, og de, som
findes, er forordnet af Gud. Den, som sætter sig op imod dem, der
har en myndighed, står derfor Guds ordning imod, og de der gør det,
vil pådrage sig dom.
Uden regering, domstole og politi får de destruktive kræfter i mennesker frit løb. Opdragelse til lydighed mod forældre og respekt for andre mennesker er fundamentalt for at kunne fungere i et samfund som vores. Det er ikke "samfundets skyld", men svaret findes i samfundets kerne, familien. Det er her de værdier skal indpodes, som får gavn for os alle på længere sigt.
Unge mennesker, som udvikler sig til autonome voldspsykopater (udtrykket fra det famøse banner på Ungdomshuset i sin tid), er ofte resultatet af en misforstået laissez-faire mentalitet fra forældre, som i afmagt overfor deres børns ulydighed begynder at forsvare deres ret til oprør imod såkaldt undertrykkende autoriteter. Det er fortvivlende at se forældre stå og harcellere imod politiet, når de netop står ansigt til ansigt med konsekvenserne af deres egen fejlslagne opdragelse.
Hvis et samfund skal fungere, må der være nogle fælles spilleregler. Vores demokrati beskytter ytringsfriheden og tillader fredelige demonstrationer. Men det vi ser på Nørrebro i disse dage er uforeneligt med demokratiets spilleregler.
Here we go :
Comment to the clearing of Ungdomshuset.
Yesterday the 1 march 7:00, the police activated their forces to clear Jagtvej 69. It became a hectic day with streetfights, wanton destruction and fire on Nørrebro and Christianshavn. For the moment the house is cleared, but Nørrebro keeps it's breath because Ungdomshusets users and symphatisers has promised further riots in Copenhagen.
As owners of the building it finally looks like, 5 1/2 years after the purcase, that we can get acces to our property. We have waited a long time for this day and are happy that justice is victorious due to the fact that the police now enforce our constitutional right of ownership.
A long proces.
Since sep 2001 members of Faderhuset has been exposed to verbal threats, violent attacks and several occurences of wanton destruction, wich has caused great inconvenience, both personal and economical. Further, Faderhuset has been exposed to public contempt in the medias as a dangerous fundamentalistic sect. Advocate Knud Foldschack et al has tried to paint a picture of Faderhuset as a backward, hateful organisation there has tried to get rid of a flowering democratic youth culture. This rethorical smearing of Faderhuset and a similiar whitewashing of Ungdomshuset has though since the disturbances back in december and now again in march got a more and more hollow and untrustworthy note.
Polical violence.
It is now clear to everybody that the milieu of Jagtvej 69 has a very violent and hard core of political activists. Anarchish is an ideology, that consiously distances them from outer control of individual, that be government, police or for that matter parents authority over their children. It is clear that people with such an ideology works against that we as danes in common works for a functional society where we in mutual dependency follow common agreed to lwas and rules.
As danes we are accustomed to peaceful conditions. Political violence isn't a dimension we are accustomed to relate to. We are accustomed to talk about the conflicts and reach a common consensus. In this case, we as a society, relates to a aspect that won't want to adapt to outer guidance and wich justify violence in it's fight against "the system". Ungdomshusets users has with their demands for a new house for the price of one crown shown that they are willing to benefit from the society, but in no way want to live up to the demands of the society. They have consequently bitten the hand that have feeded them. Most danes appreciate values such as charity (brotherly love) and tolerance against those who thinks differently. Our safe circumstances in denmark has precisely given us a surplus to place these values in the seat of honor. The problem is that when we faces political motivated violence, there must be a determined and active authority to solve the problem. We can't be so tolerant that we let destructive forces get free play.
As a christian church we build on the biblical view on authority such as it is found i Roman chapter 13 verse 1-2 (look it up for yourselfs)
Without government, courts and police, the destructive forces of men would have free reins. Upbringing to obedience against parents and respect for other people is fundamental for functioning in a society as ours. It isn't "societys fault", but the answer shall be found i the core of the society - the family. It is here that these values that will benefit us all in the long run, shall be engrafted.
Young people that develops into auotnomous violence psychopaths (expression from a infamous banner displayed on Ungdomshuset) is often the result of an misunderstood laissez-faire mentality from parents that in impotence to their childrens disobedience starts to defend their right to riot against socalled opressive authorities. It is heartbreaking to see parents redicule the police when they have to face the consequences of their failed upbringing.
If a society shall function, there must be some common rules. Our democracy protects the rigt to free speech and allows peaceful demonstrations. What we see on Nørrebro these days is incompatible with the rules of democracy.
Dammit, they express themself in ways that isn't my cup of coffe, but I haven't rewritten it since some nitpicking poly probably would start arguing about it. This means that it sometimes probably seems a bit awkward in english.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Originally posted by aneeshm
The Gandhian method works ....
The Gandhian method would probably have simply entailed buying the place when it was on the market if it was so damned important to them.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
I'd like to clarify - I do not support these violent lefties in any way, I'm just trying to think up the method which they could have used which was most likely to succeed.
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