Happy Putin!

[Riesstiu IV]

Disgusted Putin.

[LordShiva]

No he looks happy!

Dogs

[Winston]

The Iranians will kill him when he attends a meeting there on Tuesday.

[LordShiva]

Happy Putin can pwn anyone who tries to kill him

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Serb
Only in your dreams.

History is a SCIENCE.

A work of real historian is always based upon facts and documents.
If a person makes his conlusions upon falsifications and his own fantasies, such person called a fiction-writer or bullsh!ter.
Suvorov is a typicall bullsh!ter and a lier.

1) Names, please.
2) What discoveries? Suvorov discovered - NOTHING.
3) As far as I know, real historians called Rezun's theories a "populist's bullsh!t", which has nothing common with history as a science. His books are unscientific by definition, because he is talking out of his arse, instead of proving his lies with documents.


How LIES could be anything, but bad?

Suvorov is a lier.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Suvorov

While most of the Western researchers (the exception being Albert L. Weeks[6]) reject or simply ignore Suvorov's thesis[7], he has gathered some support among Russian professional historians. Throughout the 1990s, a debate was carried out among the Russian historians. Support for Suvorov's claim that Stalin had been preparing a strike against Hitler in 1941 began to emerge, as some archive materials were declassified. Authors to support assault thesis are V.D.Danilov[8], V.A.Nevezhin[9], Constantine Pleshakov and B.V. Sokolov[10]. As the latter has noted, the absence of documents with the precise date of the planned Soviet invasion can't be an argument in favor of the claim that this invasion was not planned at all. Although the USSR attacked Finland, there are no documents found, which would indicate November 26, 1939 as the previously assumed date for beginning of the provocations or November 30 as the date of the planned Soviet assault.[4]

A noteworthy result of the discussion that followed, is Mikhail Meltyukhov's study Stalin's Missed Chance [11]. The author states that the idea to strike Germany arose long before May 1941 and was the very basis of Soviet military planning from 1940 to 1941. Contrary to popular opinion, no significant defense plans have been found (Meltyukhov 2000:375). In his argumentation, Meltyukhov covers five different versions of the assault plan (“Considerations on the Strategical Deployment of Soviet Troops in Case of War with Germany and its Allies” (Russian original)), the first version of which was developed soon after the outbreak of World War II. The last version was to be completed by May 1, 1941 (Meltyukhov 2000:370–372). Even the deployment of troops was chosen in South, which would have been more beneficial in case of Soviet assault (Meltyukhov 2000:381).

In Stalin's War of Extermination Joachim Hoffmann makes extensive use of interrogations of Soviet prisoners of war, ranging in rank from general to private, conducted by their German captors during the war. The book is also based on open-source, unclassified literature and recently declassified materials. Based on that evidence, Hoffmann argues that the Soviet Union was making final preparations for its own attack when the Wehrmacht struck. He also remarks that the Zhukov's plan of May 15, 1941 has long been known and analyzed. Colonel Valeri Danilov and Dr. Heinz Magenheimer examined this plan and other documents that indicate Soviet preparations for attack almost ten years ago in an Austrian military journal (Österreichische Militärische Zeitschrift, nos. 5 and 6, 1991; no. 1, 1993; and no. 1, 1994). Both researchers concluded that the Zhukov plan of May 15, 1941, reflected Stalin's May 5, 1941 speech heralding the birth of the new offensive Red Army.

In 2006, a collection of articles (entitled The Truth of Viktor Suvorov) by various historians, who share some views with Suvorov, was published.[12]

Several politicians have also made claims similar to Suvorov's. On August 20, 2004, historian and former Prime Minister of Estonia Mart Laar published an article in The Wall Street Journal titled When Will Russia Say 'Sorry'?. In this article he said: The new evidence shows that by encouraging Hitler to start World War II, Stalin hoped to simultaneously ignite a world-wide revolution and conquer all of Europe. Another former statesman to share views of Soviet aggression plan is Mauno Koivisto, who wrote: It seems to be clear the Soviet Union was not ready for defense in the summer of 1941, but it was rather preparing for an assault... The forces mobilized in the Soviet Union were not positioned for defensive but for offensive aims. Koivisto concludes: Hitler's invasion forces didn't outnumber [the Soviets], but were rather outnumbered themselves. The Soviets were unable to organize defenses. The troops were provided with maps that covered territories outside the Soviet Union. [13]

The plan "Groza" was not a plan of pre-emptive strike against Germany. It was a plan for troops deployment in case of war. And simple check of the supplies statistic can give you an answer was Red Army ready for an offensive operations at summer 1941 or not.

Which means nothing regarding intention.

If talking with me pisses you off, then why don't you just stop talking?

oooh

The image you've posted is not from the Times.

Here is the link to your article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2302783.ece

It doesn't contain the picture you've posted:


I find this picture suspicious, because, considering the perspective, planes are too close to each other. It's not really necessary for a fighter pilot to approach so close.

[...]

The answer to these questions is simple - the plane on your picture is not a Thyphoon (that condradicts with your article). I bet that you found that picture via any search engine and attached it to your article.

So, suck it up, boy. You've made a fake, even if it's not photoshoped (which is very unlikely).

Interesting how it went from claiming the image is photoshop fake to not-directly-related-to-the-article fake.

It is actually very real, and comes from an earlier incident around may this year (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/highlands_and_islands/6641999.stm)
(click the link - it contains the BBC using my photoshopped image )

I found it using google news. I was unhappy by the low resolution images, and browsed google news for a bigger picture of your planes being chased away. Sadly, the algorithm appropriated an older article together with new ones, and I wasn't paying attention. My bad.

Has nothing to do with your claims about photoshop.

Congratulations on the investigative work though - you've clearly (and correctly) shown it is indeed a Typhoon.

You could have saved lots of work by checking the image's url :
http://imgred.com/http://www.siberianlight.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/russian-bear-foxtrot-raf-tornado-f3.jpg

I took fault at that as well, merely copy-pasting it, without looking

So stop it.
You spread bs about my country. When I say "BS", I mean a TOTAL BULL$HIT. Ask yourself - did Serb ever attacked Israel? Did he ever spreaded any false info about Israel?

No.

Then why the hell you think it's OK for you to spreading crap about my country (even non-intentionally)? And why, in this case, my reaction to your BS, surprises you?

I don't have anything against you or Russia. I don't wish Russia to be destroyed, nor do I ignore its political and security needs.

I am saddened to see a big country being politically raped by a bunch of bullies.

Were I in your position, I would have probably rooted for Putin as well.

Heck, what Ruski doesn't want to have a big mean badass as his leader? I think Stalin was badass too.

However, I don't pretend Russia is a democracy, and I don't ignore the fact that Russia is controlled by a Kabal of former KGB apparatchiks. Every sane Russian (and some insane Russians too, as in Kasparov's case ) can see that.

You should really watch some news or commentary in Russian language that is not produced by state / gazprom controlled channels.

You live in a great country. But it is not free and it is not democratic, and you (as a people) don't have enough experience to grasp what democracy is, and why is it important.

[RGBVideo]

But it is not free and it is not democratic

How do you counter a BAM which is not true?

Yes, it is.

and you (as a people) don't have enough experience to grasp what democracy is, and why is it important.

Well, when the Russian voters are constantly bombarded from the international media with the message that they don't live in a democracy, Putin will win anyway and their votes don't matter, I wouldn't wonder if they'd grow indifferent about democracy eventually.

I am saddened to see a big country being politically raped by a bunch of bullies.

This was what happened in the 1990s. The US-based media just chose not to report it. For anyone paying attention and seeking information instead of receiving news coverage, Putin is a big improvement over Yeltsin, democracy-wise.

Russian economy grows (since 2000) in average 7% annually.

I wouldn't be too enthusiastic about this -- it's probably based on raw materials export (oil, minerals, uranium), not domestic demand of domestic production.

[Dinner]

I wouldn't say Putin is a dictator but he does have an authoritarian streak and he has worked very hard on increasing the powers of the Russian executive. That in and of itself just makes him about the same as Bush the Younger or France's Charles de Gaulle in his hay day as both also tried to concentrate power in the executive.

What is a bit worrying is how Putin has ignored to the law when it suits him and enforced the law when it suits him. That's a sign of immature political systems in Russia which will hopefully change in time but nothing is assured. The censoring of the media and closing of anti-Putin stations is also not a good sign, in fact a very bad one, but in and of itself not dictatorial due to the Duma signing off on it.

Taken as a whole though Putin has moved Russia further away from Democratic norms and I think that's why so many people from Democratic countries don't like the direction Putin has taken. It isn't, as the Russian nationalists would say, because Putin is standing up to the west or because the west wants Russia on its knees. In fact, most people in the west would love to see a prosperous and stable Russia as long as that Russia is democratic and peaceful like the rest of Europe.

[Dinner]

BTW I really don't know what else Putin could have done differently in Chechnya. A state like Russia with hundreds of different ethnic groups could easily see endless civil war and USSR style break down if it starts letting every local minority gain independence.

I would have liked it if Russia had not decided to conduct so many air raids during the opporation to retake Grozny but the city was hardly "flattened" as some people claimed. Russian soldiers sometimes didn't even attempt to seporate civilians but by and large civilians were evacuated. Given what Putin was starting with it was the best choice by and large.

For the future Russia needs more rule of law so that it can really start developing a modern economy. That can't happen if investors feel they can have everything taken when ever the Kremlin feels like it so Russia's legal system needs to modernize and actually make sure laws are enforced equally. On this topic Putin has made things worse but maybe his successor will institute the needed reforms.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by LordShiva


Does this look like the "Playful Putin!" thread?

Interesting that Putin chose a Mercedes-Benz Limousine instead of one of the Russian made Limousines which were so popular in Soviet Times for official functions. If memory serves Mercedes-Benz limos were also Hitler's choice.

[Dinner]

Also I don't like that Russia sells weapons to places like Iran and Syria but the reality is the west pretty much has a lock on the arms trade in most of the acceptable countries. Those "acceptable" countries also make up most of the world's market for weapons so if Russia wants to export, and it needs to in order to keep it's industry going, then that means places like North Korea, Iran, Burma, Syria, etc...

China is big enough where it can demand special treatment via technology transfers. The west won't agree to such transfers thus Russia steps in gets the immediate sales and thus gains enough money to develop the next generation of weapon systems. In 25 years they won't be able to do that but right now Russia needs the money.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Serb

Right. Tu-95 is still in service, just like B-52 still in service in USAF.

edited: btw, the B-52 you've sent to Moscow airshow this year, entered service in 60's and still in active service. It's amazing that this 40+ years old peice of junk is still flying.

Point of fact: The airframe was built in the 60's but EVERYTHING from the engines to the electronics to the wiring, etc... has been replaced and is modern. Large aircraft are kind of like ships in that respect. They are so expensive to design and build that the shell will be used for a long time while everything inside the shell is always kept cutting edge. It's like building an Aircraft Carrier. Those things last up to half a century but the latest version has little in common with the original configuration. I bet Russia does the same as well.

On a different topic I have to agree with you about Stalin in 1941. It is highly doubtful Stalin planned to attack Germany with in a year or two of the actual Nazi invasion. Stalin was arming for war and no doubt planned to invade eventually but he wouldn't have still been purging the Soviet Officer Corp if he wanted to invade in the next year or two. Likely he would also have massed more forces in Soviet occupied Poland as well. It really looked like Stalin's plan was to wait and see how the war in the west shaped up and then to try to grab as much as he could from which ever side lost. Rather a wait and see approach.

[LordShiva]

I'm just posting here so that Oerdin doesn't get 6 posts in a row

[onodera]

Originally posted by LordShiva
I'm just posting here so that Oerdin doesn't get 6 posts in a row

C-c-c-combo breaker?

You make Putin sad, LordShiva.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by onodera
You make Putin sad, LordShiva.

How dare you accuse me of such a thing, sir! I would never make teh Putin sad!

Thoughtful, perhaps, but never sad.

[LordShiva]

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you: Teh Lolputin!