Which is most evil: Circumcision, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Americans, filosofers

[Dr Strangelove]

The Romans allowed abortion up to the 9th year.

"Hey Junior, you better do better in Math this semester."

[Asher]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
A person is whatever we define it to be.

Perhaps in your world, in mine words' definitions are in what are called dictionaries.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher

Perhaps in your world, in mine words' definitions are in what are called dictionaries.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Asher
Perhaps in your world, in mine words' definitions are in what are called dictionaries.

The definitions in dictionaries are very relative. They are absolutely not absolutes. And you too will notice it if you compare different dictionaries.

[Asher]

Can you point me to a single dictionary that defines a fetus as a person?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Asher
Can you point me to a single dictionary that defines a fetus as a person?

And what counts as defining a fetus as a person?

For example:

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
fe·tus (fē'təs) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. fe·tus·es

1. The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
2. In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo.

from:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fetus

They say unborn young. They don't come out and state that a fetus is a person, but then they don't say "Not a person." Of course, why would they even go into the question of whether a fetus is a person or not when defining fetus? Making such a decision is not the point of a dictionary.

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
And what counts as defining a fetus as a person?

For example:

They say unborn young. They don't come out and state that a fetus is a person, but then they don't say "Not a person." Of course, why would they even go into the question of whether a fetus is a person or not when defining fetus? Making such a decision is not the point of a dictionary.

They didn't even specify it as a human or a person. Why do you think that is? Because that's what the generally accepted definition is of society. Get over it.

And for your benefit as a liberal arts graduate, let me explain something to you: Dictionaries do not work by definition what a word not is, so by saying any given definition doesn't say it's not something else is stupid.

I can look up in the dictionary "blue" and say "notice it doesn't say it's not an cat, therefore we don't know!".

[GePap]

Originally posted by Asher


They didn't even specify it as a human or a person. Why do you think that is? Because that's what the generally accepted definition is of society. Get over it.

First of as As(s)her:

1. I personally don't agree with the whole "pro-life" argument, so if your going to be your regular "charming self", at least know people's positions.

2. Why would a dictionary specify the word fetus as human, when all mammals have fetuses? IIRC, that is part of the definition.

3. The question of whether a fetus is a person or not is not based on the definition of fetus, but of person (genius):

Here is a basic one:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/person

the first two:
1. a human being, whether man, woman, or child: The table seats four persons.
2. a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing.

So now it becomes whether a fetus is a human being, which then is based on the definition of both human and being. Yup, you are right, its so freaking obvious and clear....

Oh, wait, and you forgot which society agreed to this definition. For example, in the New York State Penal Law defines homicide as :

Section 125.00 Homicide defined

Homicide means conduct which causes the death of a person or an unborn child with which a female has been pregnant for more than twenty-four weeks under circumstances constituting murder, manslaughter in the first degree, manslaughter in the second degree, criminally negligent homicide, abortion in the first degree or self-abortion in the first degree.

So at least one society (NY State) would define an unborn human at twenty four weeks a person against whom homicide could be committed, and such a human would also be a fetus, according to the definition I provided.

Oh, but wait, this is one of those silly Liberal Arts arguments.....

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Asher
They didn't even specify it as a human or a person. Why do you think that is? Because that's what the generally accepted definition is of society. Get over it.

Funny, most countries in the world that allow abortion actually forbid to abort the fetus during most of its womb-life (abortion is allowed only during the early monthes of the pregnancy).

Some could argue that this delay is intended to allow the abortion of embryoes, but to ban the abortion of fetuses.



Also, to say that there is a "generally accepted definition of a person in society" is incredibly moronic when talking to Americans about abortion. They're ****ing split in half on the issue: half of them thinking that a fecund egg is a person; the other half thinking that a fetus still isn't one a second before birth.

[GePap]

The trully stupid thing is thinking that a moral and philosophical question like "is a fetus a human being worthy of rights and protections" is answered by the dictionary definition of fetus.

Is this an example of the genius of computer scientists?

[OzzyKP]

I am honored to have started the ball rolling on an Asher pwning.

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
Oh, but wait, this is one of those silly Liberal Arts arguments.....

No, you've delegated to the experts. The scientific community generally agrees on the 24 week mark as the borderline -- as do most abortion laws, accordingly.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Funny, most countries in the world that allow abortion actually forbid to abort the fetus during most of its womb-life (abortion is allowed only during the early monthes of the pregnancy).

Funny, I specifically mentioned I only support 1st trimester abortions in this very thread...wonder why...

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
The trully stupid thing is thinking that a moral and philosophical question like "is a fetus a human being worthy of rights and protections" is answered by the dictionary definition of fetus.

Is this an example of the genius of computer scientists?

That's not the argument at all, it's your flawed understanding of the argument due to your liberal arts background.

The dictionary comment was directed at Ozzy who believes dictionaries have no purpose, as words mean whatever we define them to mean.

This all stems from the fact that Ozzy said:

Skull crushing without the consent of the person.

To which I replied:

You're clearly not aware of the definition of person.

My comment is in reference to the general consensus of the population that when a fetus is legally aborted, it's not considered a person.

Then the Liberal Arts cronies jumped on this, not surprisingly all not having the brains to comprehend what is going on, and all had a circle jerk on a perceived pwn3ge, which was actually a pwn3age of the liberal arts.

Good show, chaps...

[Asher]

For what it's worth, this is not a philosophical issue.

What defines a person is sentience, and the people who determine when sentience occurs are medical experts (eg, scientists), not philosophers who have no clue what they're talking about.

This is another example of where Philosophers try to pretend they're important, when they're merely spectators.