Steve Jobs runs his big mouth again...

[KrazyHorse]

Actually, the school my friend taught at is the best public school in Baltimore City.

Again, this isn't any sort of proof that it's like this everywhere, but when a significant fraction of your students have already been in serious trouble with the law you're going to find it difficult to even maintain control, let alone teach anybody anything.

Teachers are generally paid **** wages (especially to start) and have very little control over their curricula, discipline or even classroom policy. Blame it on the union if you feel like it, but in my mind both social conditions and inflexible school bureaucracies are far more at fault.

[Tattila the Hun]

Anyone read "Freakonomics"? It had a pretty good look into education in America.

[Arrian]

I got that from a friend but haven't got around to reading it yet. Good?

-Arrian

[Arrian]

snoopy's post is well-written and there is a lot I agree with in there. I certainly don't claim that the quality of the teachers doesn't matter! Goodness no. I'm just saying that good teachers can only do so much.

It's a combination. Incidently, when I spoke of culture, I wasn't even specifically referencing the inner city. I was drawing on my experience in a very good, rich, white suburban/rural school system.

Maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion because it's a pet peeve. I don't know. Just one guy's opinion...

-Arrian

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
I think Finland solved this by making it pretty hard to become a teacher in first place

I was going to say this but you beat me.

All the school teachers I've encountered who were >35 years of age were also of great quality. Very motivated, very good in teaching. I presume the standards have been slipping during the last 10 years or so, possibly due to wages which have been slipping down along with inflation.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Arrian
It's a combination. Incidently, when I spoke of culture, I wasn't even specifically referencing the inner city. I was drawing on my experience in a very good, rich, white suburban/rural school system.

Maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion because it's a pet peeve. I don't know. Just one guy's opinion...

-Arrian

I agree with you. The generally anti-intellectual atmosphere that pervades the American educational system limits how effective teachers can be. In my experience, many American kids simply don't care about learning. They're only in school because they have to be. To make matters worse, many people who do want to learn are cowed into indifference by the fear of being labeled a "nerd." Those who don't care tend to disrupt the class, making it impossible for anyone to learn anything. Many of my high school teachers regularly lost control of their classrooms.

Inept teachers compound our educational problems problem, but they don't create them on their own. Even the best teacher can only do so much with kids who don't really care and who are willing to disrupt the class.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by VJ

I was going to say this but you beat me.

All the school teachers I've encountered who were >35 years of age were also of great quality. Very motivated, very good in teaching. I presume the standards have been slipping during the last 10 years or so, possibly due to wages which have been slipping down along with inflation.

Or they were part of the selection process.
I.e. in the beginning of their career (i.e. when the teachers are younger) there is a higher percentage of bad teachers than bad teachers but over the time many of the bad teachers discover that the job as teacher is too much stress for them and c hange their jobs, so that you have a lower percentage of bad teachers among the older teachers.

[Spiffor]

French teachers are un-fireable as well (all of those who work in public schools), and yet there are huge discrepancies between public schools: some excel, while others accumulate problems.

Personally, I had two very bad teachers in my entire education. I had dozens of teachers in all.

That teachers can't be fired sounds like a minuscule part of the problem to me.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Do you know anybody who has taught in an urban public school? I do, and what she told me wasn't pretty.

QFT

My mother taught a class of badass children... one of her student (12) had stabbed her stepfather. Eleven years old were smoking weed daily... Most of them were beaten by their parents.

[Asher]

Frenchies.

[Fake Boris]

This was in the neighborhoods of Quebec city that voted Harper, BTW.

[Asher]

So...Frenchies.

[MRT144]

I would also like to point out the incentive for bringing in good teachers is severely diminished if there are other things for them to do for the same amount or more money. carrots or a stick?

If you take away the job security without raising the payoff then why would anyone go into education?

[Asher]

Easy access to children...

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Asher
Easy access to children...

thats what the priesthood is for.