Steve Jobs runs his big mouth again...

[Arrian]

I have several friends who are or were teachers. The union, while not perfect by any stretch, doesn't sound like the problem to me.

Frankly, I've come to believe the problem is cultural.

-Arrian

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Arrian
I have several friends who are or were teachers. The union, while not perfect by any stretch, doesn't sound like the problem to me.

When it's so hard to actually fire a bad teacher and the union opposes paying good teachers more I have to think the union owns at least a little bit of the problem.

[Arrian]

Like I said, it's not perfect by any stretch, which means I agree that it's "part of the problem." I've come to believe that it is a pretty minor compared to culture. How are teachers, even good ones, supposed to teach kids who don't want to learn?

-Arrian

[DinoDoc]

That sounds like a cop-out to me and a reason people tell themselves in order to feel better about not doing their jobs.

[Arrian]

I'm not basing that part on my friends (the two that are still teaching are in decent districts and will tell you the kids are pretty good and the stress comes from bureacratic bull****), but rather on my own experience in an excellent school district. I've always been appalled by the anti-learning culture in our society.

-Arrian

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I thought his name was the warning...

[mactbone]

What metrics would you use to determine who does a good job? I worked in Korea at a private school and if the student was too cumb or unmotivated to learn it was the fault of the teacher, so we were pressured to give good grades regardless of performance. I would imagine that most metrics would involve grades and a similar effect would happen.

[pchang]

standardized tests

have become the way in the US. Each state has them and teachers are graded upon the student's absolute performance and their year to year improvements.

[Dinner]

That's what standardized testing is for. To be an impartial judge of if the students are learning or not. Much of the time if a student fails then it is the student's fault but if every student is failing then there is something else at play.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Oerdin
That's what standardized testing is for. To be an impartial judge of if the students are learning or not. Much of the time if a student fails then it is the student's fault but if every student is failing then there is something else at play.

They brought in standardized testing in this province several years ago. When too many students failed to meet the standard they simply lowered the bar.

edit - You also end up with teachers "teaching to the test". The students weren't any more educated unless you count their ability to play the system.

[Asher]

You also end up with teachers "teaching to the test".

You could say this, well, standardized the education.

[Proteus_MST]

Of course it doesn´t standardize the real knowledge that the pupils get out of their lessons, as other areas of the scientific field that aren´t part of the test (but might be important for a well rounded working knowledge and understanding of the field) might get neglected.

(as well as the fact that the problem still is there that some teachers have a harder job to train their students to pass the test [my example of the low funded school in a slum] than others [who work at schools in better districts that have more funds to buy teaching material abnd the like])

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
That sounds like a cop-out to me and a reason people tell themselves in order to feel better about not doing their jobs.

Do you know anybody who has taught in an urban public school? I do, and what she told me wasn't pretty.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Do you know anybody who has taught in an urban public school? I do, and what she told me wasn't pretty.

It's certainly true that students in the inner city aren't always motivated... but I've worked as a TA in two different inner city elementary schools, one in Hyde Park (a relatively well off area in the middle of the extremely poor south side) and one a bit further away, about half a mile from The Projects, in a much poorer area riddled with gang activity and bars on the windows and such.

In one school, the kids were horribly unmotivated, acted out constantly, and few made any effort to learn. Instead they would threaten me with violence when I corrected them for acting out, and they spent no time doing homework and made little progress from week to week.

In the other school, the students were fairly well behaved, looked forward to meeting with me, and made significant progress. They seemed genuinely interested in learning.

Now, which school was which? Of course, the school in the projects was the school with the motivated, interested students, while the school near the University had unmotivated, uninterested students.

Why?

The worse school had a principal who had little control over her teachers, and was not a competent leader. The teachers were not interested in being there either, and made no effort to control their classes. They were largely people who were working there to get the tax breaks and scholarships available for teachers who agree to work in an inner-city school, and were just waiting to get out.

In the other school, the teachers were largely local, interested in their students' well being, and had a strong principal who often involved herself in the classroom.

My point is that teachers matter. Those teachers who blame the students and their culture are flat out wrong. Yes, the culture in the inner city is not positive for education, and the fact that the students' parents often don't help at home is a problem, but the teacher makes a difference, and a school with good teachers will turn around some of the students.

However, it has to start with kindergarten and move up from there. The school must consistently earn the students' respect, and make the students interested in learning and attending classes. One teacher can't make that much of a difference, if the rest of the school around her is a failure; just like one slugger can't make a lousy baseball team great. It takes a school. Any teacher who feels he/she can't make a difference, though, needs to go find another job. That sort of attitude doesn't help anyone, and certainly isn't conducive to successfully teaching students.

[DinoDoc]

snoopy369