Steve Jobs runs his big mouth again...

[aneeshm]

All the teachers worked on a contract basis, so there was no question of unions or anything like that. But everyone was OK with it, because schools try to poach each other's best teachers anyway, so the teachers don't mind. Job security is not really an issue.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
As I said from my experience those who are bright are if anything held back by teachers. They don't need inspired really, they need not to have their time wasted doing repetive tasks while the teacher tries to force those who are not as bright or don't care to learn.

The Albert Einsteins that are lost are more likely lost by lack of resources, or being too bored in class to do anything. Not because of lack of inspiration.

JM

I don´t disagree with that.
Keeping the lessons interesting for highly gifted people might require other techniques than teaching lower gifted people (taking into account their ability to understand things faster, as you already mentioned).
That´s one of the reasons why in germany schools after primary schools are split into three different types, Hauptschule/Realschule/Gymnasium, each with different standards (and, since maybe 10-15 years into some few private schools for highly gifted children)

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
As I said from my experience those who are bright are if anything held back by teachers. They don't need inspired really, they need not to have their time wasted doing repetive tasks while the teacher tries to force those who are not as bright or don't care to learn.

The Albert Einsteins that are lost are more likely lost by lack of resources, or being too bored in class to do anything. Not because of lack of inspiration.

JM

the albert einsteins of the world are likely failing math. its unfortunate that bright kids need prodding too.

[Jon Miller]

Umm, it was likely cause he was bored or something.

I didn't really start reading until part way through 2nd grade. By 3rd grade I was reading 400 page theological books and novels.

I admit I was prodded a bit, but mostly I discovered that books opened up many universes to explore... and then I continued by myself.

The Math that is taught prehighschool isn't really mathematics... it is arithmetic. And even in highschool it is only in geometry and above that real mathematics starts to be ventured into. Albert Einstien has some famous quote about sucking at math... the calculation side I think was always an issue.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by MRT144


the albert einsteins of the world are likely failing math. its unfortunate that bright kids need prodding too.

Basically my point is that bright kids don't need inspired.. they just need the areas where their genius is to be available to them.

Now there is issues of work ethic and other things that might need inspiration... but not the interest in a subject.

Jon Miller

[MRT144]

i was a classic case of someone who rested on their laurels and never developed the skills I needed because I used an underlying giftedness. Well, that has caught up with me now that I'm 23. I am pretty sure if I hadnt been foolish or lazy, I could have been much more succesful at my age than I am.

SMart kids need focus, and saying that they are just bored is an oversimplification.

[Jon Miller]

Focus I would agree. Inspired to find the subject matter interesting?? No...

JM

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by MRT144
i was a classic case of someone who rested on their laurels and never developed the skills I needed because I used an underlying giftedness. Well, that has caught up with me now that I'm 23. I am pretty sure if I hadnt been foolish or lazy, I could have been much more succesful at my age than I am.

SMart kids need focus, and saying that they are just bored is an oversimplification.

Don't flatter yourself. You're not particularly bright.

[b etor]

i'm gifted.








don't act so suprised

[Fake Boris]

nm

[Fake Boris]

[MRT144]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Don't flatter yourself. You're not particularly bright.

I was at one time. But that doesnt matter now, does it? The point I was making was about how a gifted mind needs focus and discipline lest it waste away. Which mine did. I dropped out of high school after sophmore year. I completed triginometry, and was in the AP English classes. I tested around 1400 on a practice SAT without any studying. It wasn't an issue

I had no discipline and had behavioral problems that kept me out of classes. If you take 6+ years off from school, you arent going to be the sharpest tool in the shed, and I know that KH.

You seem to miss that point, time and time again KH. I am not the smartest, or even particularly bright now. I admit this over and over again. I find it humbling to have great prospects shown at an early age only to wind up in a place completely opposite of those prospects.

I just don't understand why you like to harp on me.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


You say most of the students didn´t learn more.
But didn´t you reach at least 2-3 Students per class, which were stimulated by this kind of lessons?

My experiences with school are only as a pupil, but I can say that in most of the years in biology I was rather mediocre.
But when we got a good Biology teacher during the last years at school (who didn´t even teaching, but did experiments and research @home himself) I was the best in class and I assume also the marks of the other pupils were better with this teacher than with other teachers who did their teaching 08/15 style.

Of course there were still pupils who weren´t interested in the lessons even with this teacher, I assume even the most interesting teacher won´t be able to reach all students. (so yes I agree that there are Students who are lost to the best teachings because of their own lacking interest and/or because their parents taught them the wrong values)
But isn´t reaching just 2-3 Students more with your lessons worth the effort?

After all one of them might become the next Albert Einstein or the next Christiaan Barnard because his interest has been awakened by your lessons, whereas with 08/15 teachings his interest would have remained asleep and he would have ended as one of the million office workers around.

And 2-3 students per class which are influenced by good teachrs are still 10 % of all students (at least if you have class sizes of 20-30 pupils like schools in germany have) so the impact might be greater than one might assume.

(even though you despite the efforts and the importance of the work probably will never receive a word of thanks)

Unfortunately I never had 1 student like you. I taught 4 periods of remedial algebra and 2 courses of US History. I know grown up people think that most students love history, but they don't. In fact students consistently say that history is their least favorite subject. They prefer hands on stuff and science above everything else. History is too hard for them to relate to.

I know that other teachers will have a better experience than I did, but all teachers are judged for how well all students do that's why teachers get such a bum rap.

[Drake Tungsten]

I was at one time. But that doesnt matter now, does it? The point I was making was about how a gifted mind needs focus and discipline lest it waste away. Which mine did. I dropped out of high school after sophmore year. I completed triginometry, and was in the AP English classes. I tested around 1400 on a practice SAT without any studying. It wasn't an issue

I had no discipline and had behavioral problems that kept me out of classes. If you take 6+ years off from school, you arent going to be the sharpest tool in the shed, and I know that KH.

You seem to miss that point, time and time again KH. I am not the smartest, or even particularly bright now. I admit this over and over again. I find it humbling to have great prospects shown at an early age only to wind up in a place completely opposite of those prospects.

I just don't understand why you like to harp on me.

Don't be so down on yourself, dude; you're not the only average intellect who posts here. Besides, who needs to be smart when they can look good?

[Arrian]

I know grown up people think that most students love history, but they don't. In fact students consistently say that history is their least favorite subject. They prefer hands on stuff and science above everything else. History is too hard for them to relate to.

Most students do seem to be bored by History, but I maintain that has a lot to do with the history curriculum - it sucks. My love of History came from and was sustained by my father. I was fortunate enough to have 2 excellent history teachers (3, actually, but 2 worked as a team to teach classes) in highschool who got to teach some interesting stuff. But basic US history classes sucked, and I'm not sure even the good teachers of whom I speak could salvage them.

-Arrian