History's Greatest Statesmen

[Alexander I]

Re: Re: History's Greatest Statesmen

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Define "statesmen." Are they (a) people who ran their country well; (b) people who are adept at international diplomacy; (c) both; (d) something else, or (e) bananas?

c. both

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Ned
Well, Bismarck is consisdered by most to be a great statesman. Perhaps he is the model.

"I have seen three emperors in their nakedness. The sight was not inspiring." ... Bismarck.

[One_more_turn]

Imperator Caesar Augustus. A less known fact about his achievement was his peace treaty with Parthians, which was great diplomacy even by modern standard.

Pharaoh Ramses II concluded the first ever peace treaty in human history with the Hittites.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Tsk, tsk, Krazy, missing a chance to plug Pearson. Tsk, tsk.

I'm busy trolling.

[lord of the mark]

Lincoln (happy Presidents day)
Pitt (Churchill is to obvious, and his period of maximum (positive) influence too shortlived. Much as Id like to say Disraeli, I dont know enough)
Peter the Great
Deng Xao Ping, whos probably responsible for the biggest changes happening right now, and lifting the most humans out of poverty
Id like to name a Frenchman, and not De Gaulle. Im thinking maybe Gambetta.

[lord of the mark]

duh, ned, of course Churchill wanted German bombing of London to bring the US in. But it didnt, and im willing to bet that Churchill wasnt counting on it to do so. And I see no evidence that the motive of bombing berlin was to get the Germans to bomb London.

If UK had accepted terms with Germany, that would have led either to a German dominated Europe, or, more likely to another war with Germany a couple of years later. The first choice would have been a disaster, and the second is debatable.

[Zkribbler]

Klemens von Metternich

He took over Austria's diplomatic corp after the destruction of the Austrian Army as Asterlich...at a time when Austria was next on Napolean's list of counties to invade.

He sabotaged Napolean's plans to marry a Russian Archduchess and convinced him to marry an Austian princess instead.

When Napolean later invaded Russia (instead of Austria), he put together a secret alliance of Austria, Russia, Britain, Sweden and Prussian. After the Grande Armee froze in the Russian Winter, the allies counter attacked and crushed France.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Klemens von Metternich

He took over Austria's diplomatic corp after the destruction of the Austrian Army as Asterlich...at a time when Austria was next on Napolean's list of counties to invade.

He sabotaged Napolean's plans to marry a Russian Archduchess and convinced him to marry an Austian princess instead.

When Napolean later invaded Russia (instead of Austria), he put together a secret alliance of Austria, Russia, Britain, Sweden and Prussian. After the Grande Armee froze in the Russian Winter, the allies counter attacked and crushed France.

And that's why he's my honorable mention.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Deng Xao Ping, whos probably responsible for the biggest changes happening right now, and lifting the most humans out of poverty

Shame about the massacres, right?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Mine-

1- King Athelstan
2- Muhammed Ali Jinnah
3- Clement Attlee
4- Caesar Augustus
5- Nelson Mandela

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Wiki has a fair assessment of why Attlee was Britain's greatest peacetime PM (and a formidable deputy to Churchill in wartime)-

"A modest man, but then he has so much to be modest about," was Churchill's comment. Attlee's modesty and quiet manner hid a great deal that has only come to light with historical reappraisal. In terms of the machinery of government, he was one of the most business like and effective of all the British prime ministers. Indeed he is widely praised by his successors, both Labour and Conservative.

His leadership style, of consensual government, acting as a chairman rather than a president, won him much praise from historians and politicians alike. Even Thatcherites confess to admiring him. Christopher Soames, a Cabinet Minister under Thatcher, remarked that "Mrs Thatcher was not really running a team. Every time you have a Prime Minister who wants to make all the decisions, it mainly leads to bad results. Attlee didn't. That's why he was so damn good." Even Thatcher herself wrote in her 1995 memoirs, which charted her beginnings in Grantham to her election as Prime Minister, that she admired Attlee saying "Of Clement Attlee, however, I was an admirer. He was a serious man and a patriot. Quite contrary to the general tendency of politicians in the 1990s, he was all substance and no show".

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


Shame about the massacres, right?

Sure is.

But we've got guys citing Roman emperors. Im sure the death count at Tienanmen Square pales beside what even "good" emperors did to their enemies.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ned
Well, Bismarck is consisdered by most to be a great statesman. Perhaps he is the model.

As well he should be. He so utterly outwitted Napoleon III that its hard not to hold him as the standard (granted, outwitting the man wasn't that difficult, but the completeness of it was impressive).

[One_more_turn]

Deng Xiaoping's actions in the 50s were far more atrocious than what happened on Tiananmen Square.

Another interesting tidbit about Deng is that he belongs to an ethnic minority.

[One_more_turn]

My top 5:

1. George Washington
2. Otto von Bismarck
3. Caesar Augustus
4. Cyrus the Great
5. Deng Xiaoping