All purpose War of 1812 thread

[Zkribbler]

From Wikipedia

The United States achieved their main goals of ending impressment in practice and restoring free trade, and ending the Indian threat on the western and southern borders. Of even greater importance was the gaining of a psychological sense of complete independence. Nationalism soared after the Battle of New Orleans proved Americans could defeat the British army. The opposition Federalist Party collapsed and an Era of Good Feelings ensued. (Canadians like to claim they had defended their country from American annexation, though in fact this was never a stated aim of the United States government.)

[Drake Tungsten]

TBH it was a stupid war esp. as we could have just ganged up on the frenchie's like normal instead

When did America ever gang up on the Frenchies with England? They did more for our country than you lot ever did...

France

[BeBMan]

"and an Era of Good Feelings ensued"

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
When did America ever gang up on the Frenchies with England? They did more for our country than you lot ever did...

At the end of the 18th Century, following the XYZ Affair and with increasing French piracy in the Carribean. We rebuilt out navy, re-constituted our Marine Coup, built the U.S.S. Constitution and the U.S.S. Enteprise (among others) and kicked the froglegs off of the French in a "quasi war".

[Odin]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
From Wikipedia

Kitty pwn3d.

[Drake Tungsten]

At the end of the 18th Century, following the XYZ Affair and with increasing French piracy in the Carribean. We rebuilt out navy, re-constituted our Marine Coup, built the U.S.S. Constitution and the U.S.S. Enteprise (among others) and kicked the froglegs off of the French in a "quasi war".

I'm aware of the Quasi War with France (our only conflict with our Gallic comrades, as far as I know). I'm not aware of English involvement in that war, though.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

At the end of the 18th Century, following the XYZ Affair and with increasing French piracy in the Carribean. We rebuilt out navy, re-constituted our Marine Coup, built the U.S.S. Constitution and the U.S.S. Enteprise (among others) and kicked the froglegs off of the French in a "quasi war".

I'm aware of the Quasi War with France (our only conflict with our Gallic comrades, as far as I know). I'm not aware of English involvement in that war, though.

they were in more or less perpetual war with France at that point.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Odin


Kitty pwn3d.

No, Kitty knows better than to place any credence in a Wikipedia article which has doubtless seen its fair share of edit wars.

Duh.

[Drake Tungsten]

they were in more or less perpetual war with France at that point.

They weren't our allies and didn't fight alongside us, though, which was my point.

[KrazyHorse]

I like how the US "succeeded in ending impressment" when it was unilaterally abandoned by the Brits while the war was still on (because Nappy's navy was gone and he was heading to Elba)



Even funnier is the fact that most of the official "grievances" of the US dealt with the Eastern Seaboard, yet the first move was attacking interior territories of BNA. Also, I note that those who had most to gain by territorial expansion (the Ohioans and Kentuckians) were the only ones enthusiastic about the war, while those most affected by the bull**** fake grievances of the US had no urge to go to war, refused to take part in the Canadian adventure, broke the US embargo against trade across the Northeast frontier, and generally spat on the war hawks.

I hate to tell you yanks this, but whenever anybody outside NA thinks about 1812 (which is rarely enough) they come to the conclusion that the US lost it.

When your two strategic aims are an invasion and the breaking of a blockade, and you fail miserably in accomplishing either of those, then you have lost the war. Period.

[Drake Tungsten]

You'd be right if the Brits hadn't been nice enough to sacrifice an army to us at New Orleans. They handed us the tying score...

[Zkribbler]

Or if they'd walked away owning on square inch of American soil.

[Imran Siddiqui]

[q=KH]I hate to tell you yanks this, but whenever anybody outside NA thinks about 1812 (which is rarely enough) they come to the conclusion that the US lost it.[/q]

[q=molly bloom]It's best described as a no-score draw. [/q]

(btw all this is premised on my, perhaps faulty, belief that molly is in the UK)

Also, I note that those who had most to gain by territorial expansion (the Ohioans and Kentuckians) were the only ones enthusiastic about the war, while those most affected by the bull**** fake grievances of the US had no urge to go to war, refused to take part in the Canadian adventure, broke the US embargo against trade across the Northeast frontier, and generally spat on the war hawks.

You may also wish to note that the NorthEast was a solidly pro-British Federalist Party enclave (probably because the Brits treated the NE the best) while the South and Midwest were decidedly pro-French.

Furthermore, it is interesting you speak of the Ohioans and Kentuckians being most enthusiastic because they had the most to gain because one of the two Kentucky Senators voted against the war and in Ohio one Senator abstained while the other voted nay. That sounds.... a bit less than enthusiastic to me.

[KrazyHorse]

Go take a look at which units took part in the fighting and which units refused to cross the border.

Also, the fact that the invasion took place on the western end of the frontier (beyond which was wilderness) was precisely because the Ohioans and Kentuckians were the only ones expected to be willing to contribute militias to a foreign adventure.

[KrazyHorse]

(probably because the Brits treated the NE the best)

???

I don't get it. The maritime issues impacted NE by far the most severely, these people didn't really give a damn about it, yet the maritime issues were the real reason to go to war?