India's "Saddam Hussein" village

[Janaki]

Originally posted by LordShiva
You two should duke it out right here

Nah...he's weak. I'd win and he knows it.

[Lorizael]

Anywho.

Originally posted by Janaki
I'm not too sure this is true.

Oh? What would make you think otherwise?

[Janaki]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Anywho.



Oh? What would make you think otherwise?

I've just met to many American dumbasses.

[Janaki]

Originally posted by Janaki


I've just met to many American dumbasses.

Besides, propaganda is propaganda...Americans are victims of it just as much as the Saddam Hussein lovers:. Sure SOME Americans actually take the time to TRY to get both sides of the picture. Yet they can't in reality coz most of them inherently appear to think that their view of the world (and how things should be) is superior. Their is no way an American is truly gonna understand the perspective of a non-american. It's an ego-centric culture.

[Lorizael]

Oh yes. Americans are certainly victims of propaganda, too; I just don't think American propaganda is as good as the Islamic variety.

I wouldn't claim that Americans understand both sides of every issue or can see things from the other point of view; I'm merely saying that Americans are aware of the other point of view. Creationists know that evolutionists exist, even if they don't know a damn thing about evolution. Evolutionists know that creationists exist, even if they can't comprehend how someone could believe that stuff.

In general, Americans - wealthy and educated as they are - are inundated by enough media that they know other points of view exist, and know that things might not be exactly how they see things.

But random, poor villagers in a town with no electricity might not even be aware of the concept that they might not be right. They won't have seen any pictures of the United States, won't know anything about how its government operates, won't be getting hourly news reports on the web about casualty counts and vote tallies, won't be aware of the minority viewpoints in our country or the protests against Bush - none of these things are available to them. They have no tools with which to form a different worldview, and it's a shame.

Everyone in the United States at least has the opportunity to learn about the other side, even if their own willful ignorance prevents them from making the choice to do so. In many thoroughly destitute areas of the world, no such choice exists, and the only information coming into the village is Islamic propaganda.

[Elok]

I like your response to it, Aneeshm: naming your kid after a war criminal is pretty funny, unless you picked a war criminal who has committed crimes against Hindu Civilization.

Anyway, these people's image of Saddam is so divorced from the reality of his life that the name has little meaning. If they named their kids "Saint Nicholas," thinking of a fat old white guy in a red suit who rides around in the sky dropping toys down chimneys, it wouldn't really say anything about the ancient bishop of Asia Minor. Same rules apply here, IMO. If they had proverbs like "a kurd in a mass grave is worth ten running free over the sands," that would be genuinely icky.

[Kuciwalker]

[Janaki]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Oh yes. Americans are certainly victims of propaganda, too; I just don't think American propaganda is as good as the Islamic variety.

I wouldn't claim that Americans understand both sides of every issue or can see things from the other point of view; I'm merely saying that Americans are aware of the other point of view. Creationists know that evolutionists exist, even if they don't know a damn thing about evolution. Evolutionists know that creationists exist, even if they can't comprehend how someone could believe that stuff.

In general, Americans - wealthy and educated as they are - are inundated by enough media that they know other points of view exist, and know that things might not be exactly how they see things.

But random, poor villagers in a town with no electricity might not even be aware of the concept that they might not be right. They won't have seen any pictures of the United States, won't know anything about how its government operates, won't be getting hourly news reports on the web about casualty counts and vote tallies, won't be aware of the minority viewpoints in our country or the protests against Bush - none of these things are available to them. They have no tools with which to form a different worldview, and it's a shame.

Everyone in the United States at least has the opportunity to learn about the other side, even if their own willful ignorance prevents them from making the choice to do so. In many thoroughly destitute areas of the world, no such choice exists, and the only information coming into the village is Islamic propaganda.

Media in Amerca is biased. It's generally news being presented by an American for Americans. It's inherently biased by the reporters American Education and views of life and society and value system. The views are also biased in how they perceive what they see/hear in the media by their own American value systems.

I agree that many villagers don't have the same tools as the average American to gather information at the same rate. And sure, they are certainly the victims of propaganda from extremists.

However, have lived in the third world and in the North America, I know from experience that people in the third world (educated or not) have much knowledge of what happens in the West. It might be received by word of mouth more so than via internet or TV but they actively try to keep themselves involved....not sure I find all that many American's doing the same wrt the third world.

That aside, the issue in most cases no so much that these people love Saddam Hussein. Often it's just that they don't appreciate the West impossing their values and culture on them. They love for Saddam is more about tell the Americans that they don't want American messing with their culture.

[Arrian]

If they had proverbs like "a kurd in a mass grave is worth ten running free over the sands," that would be genuinely icky.

On the subject of Americans and our supposed inability to understand other worldviews - I think you may find that those of us here on Apolyton don't quite fit the stereotype. Even those of us who hold positions you likely vehemently disagree with, Janaki, are generally better informed than the (stereotypical) ignunt 'murican who can't find Iraq on a map.

-Arrian

[Janaki]

Originally posted by Arrian




On the subject of Americans and our supposed inability to understand other worldviews - I think you may find that those of us here on Apolyton don't quite fit the stereotype. Even those of us who hold positions you likely vehemently disagree with, Janaki, are generally better informed than the (stereotypical) ignunt 'murican who can't find Iraq on a map.

-Arrian

Oh no...you Poly guys are definitely not the average American. I have great respect for you folks. It's them regular Americans I got's issues with.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Janaki
Media in Amerca is biased. It's generally news being presented by an American for Americans. It's inherently biased by the reporters American Education and views of life and society and value system. The views are also biased in how they perceive what they see/hear in the media by their own American value systems.

Never said it wasn't biased. But it's biased in many different directions. Again, I'm not saying that Americans are learning what's right from their media sources, only that their media sources force them to be aware that more points of view than just the American one exist.

However, have lived in the third world and in the North America, I know from experience that people in the third world (educated or not) have much knowledge of what happens in the West. It might be received by word of mouth more so than via internet or TV but they actively try to keep themselves involved....not sure I find all that many American's doing the same wrt the third world.

*shrug* Having not lived outside of the United States, I must acquiesce to your superior experience in this, but I'm pretty cynical about accepting generalizations regarding the behavior of an entire group of people. I won't accept that "they" actively try to keep themselves involved; it doesn't seem plausible to me that this would always be true.

That aside, the issue in most cases no so much that these people love Saddam Hussein. Often it's just that they don't appreciate the West impossing their values and culture on them. They love for Saddam is more about tell the Americans that they don't want American messing with their culture.

This probably just proves my point. Ask these individuals what American culture and values really are, and I'm willing to bet they'd have a real hard time coming up with accurate answers.

[Arrian]

Media is biased.

Corrected. Everyone has bias, and everyone's media is biased. The key is to understand that and attempt to sort through it. One problem with American media is that it claims to be even-handed, or at least try to be even-handed (and I'm actually *not* talking about "fair and balanced" Fox).

In some countries, the bias is more open - the Brits, I find, are more clear about it. That can make it easier to interpret.

The real boon, IMO, is the internet. It allows one to get news from a variety of sources, including non-western ones. It also introduces even more disinformation, as we all know, but one can learn to weed out at least some of it.

A truely unbiased, culture-neutral news stream would be both nearly impossible to create and also be of limited use. It would simply report facts and quotations, without any analysis. Once you analyse something, you are likely bringing your own bias/culture into it.

-Arrian

[Janaki]

Originally posted by Lorizael


Never said it wasn't biased. But it's biased in many different directions. Again, I'm not saying that Americans are learning what's right from their media sources, only that their media sources force them to be aware that more points of view than just the American one exist.



*shrug* Having not lived outside of the United States, I must acquiesce to your superior experience in this, but I'm pretty cynical about accepting generalizations regarding the behavior of an entire group of people. I won't accept that "they" actively try to keep themselves involved; it doesn't seem plausible to me that this would always be true.



This probably just proves my point. Ask these individuals what American culture and values really are, and I'm willing to bet they'd have a real hard time coming up with accurate answers.

And what's to say that Non-American's don't get to know that more than one perspective exists.

Sure not EVERY non-american is busy trying to get a broader view on political issues...that's why I said 'generally'....

One does not need to know much about American culture to be able to notice that their own culture differs from the little American culture they do know about.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Janaki
And what's to say that Non-American's don't get to know that more than one perspective exists.

Err, I think I already tried to explain that part. It has to do with the fact that most countries simply don't have the overabundance of available information that us Americans have, especially non-Western countries.

[Janaki]

Originally posted by Lorizael


Err, I think I already tried to explain that part. It has to do with the fact that most countries simply don't have the overabundance of available information that us Americans have, especially non-Western countries.

Probably not 'overabundance' but that doesn't mean they don't have enough to know that there is more than one perspective.