Chavez once again porves he's a tin pot dictator in the making.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


And that pretty much confirms it since thats what communism is.

Seriously now

If you are saying you need control of the entire world for "communism" to happen you at best have a theoretical model that will NEVER happen.

Leaving aside national, ethnic and religious interests for just one second -- and those are powerful interests to leave aside- How do you equalize "position" or "situation" between the west and say sub-Sahara Africa.


Are you acknowledging that communism cannot practically work at the level of the nation-state?

[chequita guevara]

I would never allow anyone to be killed just because of some disagreement. Aside from the moral horror that is killing a human being, the best revenge is making people live to see everything they oppose become reality.

[chequita guevara]

For those who care, Venezuela bought out the American investor in the Caracas power company.

[chequita guevara]

[SIZE=1]You and I both know that if it was a right winger who was doing similiar things you'd be crying a river yet when a left winger does the same things you bend over backwards to make excuses for him. That's just hypocracy.

#1, I don't know that I would. If this has been constitutional in Venezuela for 46 years, and hasn't led to a slide into dictatorship, I'd be like, WTF, but okay, which is how I am with this. I really don't like it, but it's not an extraordinary power grab by the Venezuelan president.

The Constitution of the United States allows for the suspension of habeas corpus during war time, which we'd all agree is a dictatorial move, and one of our greatest president's, Abe Lincoln even violated the Constitution by imprisoning people without charge without the authorization of Congress. We don't consider Lincoln a dictator. We consider him the savior of our country.

Whether Chavez will be a dictator or simply exercising his constitutional authority remains to be seen. Yet you've been saying he's trying to make himself a dictator for years despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You're record on this is weaker than Bush's record of honesty in regards to Iraq.

#2, as I mentioned previously, I'm a partisan, not a neutral observer. I don't pretend otherwise. Whatever it takes, within reason, for my side to win is okay by me. It's better for the human race in the long run. If it were ever to have been a fair fight, we'd have won over a hundred years ago. You can only be cheated and stomped so many times before you are forced to get down in the mud to fight.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber



which

the "killing the people that disagree with you" part?

Yes, when those people have stated that they will take up arms against the revolution and do everything to prevent it. Oh yeah, that's you isn't it.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber


Seriously now

If you are saying you need control of the entire world for "communism" to happen you at best have a theoretical model that will NEVER happen.

Leaving aside national, ethnic and religious interests for just one second -- and those are powerful interests to leave aside- How do you equalize "position" or "situation" between the west and say sub-Sahara Africa.


Are you acknowledging that communism cannot practically work at the level of the nation-state?

The more power and the less enemies we have the better our society will work. Doesn't that sound right? There are a lot of interests that get in the way of the movement. Those have to be elimiinated just like the interest in exploiting each others labor.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Yes, when those people have stated that they will take up arms against the revolution and do everything to prevent it. Oh yeah, that's you isn't it.

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, Comrade.

[DinoDoc]

Kid: If the system can only survive in a vaccum with no external influences, of what good is it to the people who live in reality?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Flubber
Are you acknowledging that communism cannot practically work at the level of the nation-state?

Marx said that back in 1847, and I think events since then have more or less proven him correct on that point.

The why of the matter comes from several points. Most importantly is that in a figurative sense, no nation is an island unto itself, that it can be cut off from the world. We can see the devastating effects that embargo on Cuba has had, and for the most part, the imperialist world had cut the socialist world off from trade. "Communist" China is the great exception.

As well, capitalists see socialism as a real threat, as well they should. Even assuming cooler heads like mine prevail and thwart some well deserved revolutionary justice, eventually, the capitalists themselves will be as one with the people, abolished by becoming workers. That is a fate worse than death for them, as the suicides of failed capitalists so often show us. It is why many become entrepreneurs in the first place. And so they waged terrible wars and hurled terrorist acts. So long as both exist in the world, there will be war. One or the other must give. This time it was us.

Those are the big two.

[Flubber]

So che are you acknowledging the complete futility of your movement then? Since if I understand you correctly , it only works if the entire world holds hands and sings "kumbiya"

Seriously since you can't get the whole world together on anything-- no one else can either btw do you have even the smallest morsel of hope?

Isn't it all just a theoretical exercise?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Yes, when those people have stated that they will take up arms against the revolution and do everything to prevent it. Oh yeah, that's you isn't it.

Arms ?? I usually wouldn't advocate violence but since you are talking about eliminating me , I probably would take up arms in a desperate attempt at self-preservation.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


The more power and the less enemies we have the better our society will work. Doesn't that sound right? There are a lot of interests that get in the way of the movement. Those have to be elimiinated just like the interest in exploiting each others labor.

THats my problem. You seem to be saying that your society can work only if people have no choice. Meanwhile capitalism has worked in a very competitive environment. Its not perfect but it holds its own

[Flubber]

Take Chavez. Can he make his country a success in the long run. Assume

1. Neither the US nor anyone else will invade him as long as he doesn't employ his military outside his borders.

2. Other countries will trade with him on a reasonable basis

Now he has the resources on Vnezuela behind him and enough personal popularity to force through some reforms. Could Venezuela succeed as a communist state?

I appreciate Ven. is a tough one since it hasn't always had the longest lived stable governments but then again, there are tougher countries to try

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Kid: If the system can only survive in a vaccum with no external influences, of what good is it to the people who live in reality?

You're taking my argument to the extremes. I'm not saying that we can not survive without enemies. I'm saying that the less enemies we have the better we will be able to survive and meet our objectives.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, Comrade.

Fulbber isn't quite a fly yet. joke