Barrack Hussein Obama

[Ned]

Originally posted by Arrian


No, it's rather that I can actually think straight and navigate through your logical gymnastics.

I already explained the significant differences between Mel Gibson and Barak Obama. I also asked a question regarding the Governator and his family's nazi background (was it really a major campaign issue?), that you never answered.

You're doing backflips to try and connect dots that just don't connect.

Try harder, I guess.

-Arrian

No, Arrian, you are wrong. Mel's father's racism was brought up in a effort to discredit Mel. No one really faulted Mel for not publicly blasting his own Dad.

Yes, Arnold's father's past was widely trumpeted in a very subversive way in the campaign. I never knew that about Arnie until the Dems brought it up. He has a lot of explaining to do as he was repeatedly asked about it by reporters.

So don't tell me that guilt-by-association is a game only the right plays. It is a game all sides play it seems.

[Jon Miller]

See, Ned, I could see your point if his father was a Terrorist. But if his father was a muslim, I really don't see how there is any guilty association.

Unlike Mel's dad or Arnold's father.

JM

[Arrian]

I don't recall saying that (guilt by association is a right-wing thing). When did I say that?

There were reasons to believe that Mel was an anti-semite, even before his drunken rant. But, like you, most people didn't really lend much credence to the charge (myself included, because I just didn't care) until Mel's DUI cluster****.

As for the Governator, that's a much better comparison. A politician running for office, a silly and insulting "connection" in an attempt to discredit him. That one works.

edit: and as JM notes, there is additional step wrt to Obama, and that's our old friend, Muslim=terrorist.

-Arrian

[Ned]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
See, Ned, I could see your point if his father was a Terrorist. But if his father was a muslim, I really don't see how there is any guilty association.

Unlike Mel's dad or Arnold's father.

JM

Are you kidding?

[Jon Miller]

No, I hang out with muslims (I don't think very traditional muslims) occasionally. Do I have terrorist associations?

JM

[Arrian]

In one case (Obama) the heritage issue is simply that - ethnic or religious background.

In the other two, it's the political stance of the fathers (Nazi!, anti-semite) that was brought up, not their ethnic/religious background. Unless, of course, one thinks that Christians must automatically be anti-semites or somesuch claptrap.

-Arrian

[Jon Miller]

This isn't a war on Islam Ned.

If you want to make it a religious war, then expect to see many christian US citizens be against you.

JM

[LordShiva]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Barack Hussein Obama

Originally posted by Ned
LS's comment suggested that America's war on terror was racist.

How so?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
No, I hang out with muslims (I don't think very traditional muslims) occasionally. Do I have terrorist associations?

JM

We can go around this block until we drop. But it is clear that the world of Islam is united against Israel and Western culture. They are not all terrorists, it is true. But the vast majority seem sympathic to OBL's goals if not his methods.

When we hear that the Muslim street hates us because of our "foreign policy," we all know what that means. It means they hate us for supporting Israel.

The Shah of Iran was overthrown because of his pro-Westernism and his introduction of Western culture into Iran and for no other reason.

Anwar Sadat was killed because of his peace treaty with Israel.

Etc., etc., etc.

The fight in Iraq IS about Islam and not about Iraqi nationalism. The forces arrayed against us do not want Westernism in any form in a Muslim country.

[Ned]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Barack Hussein Obama

Originally posted by LordShiva


How so?

Barak Hussein Obama is an Arabic name, a name associated with Islam. People would get upset with the NAME because of the War on Terror, not because it is associated with any particular race. But your suggestion that Americans would get upset with the name because of racism implies that Americans are fighting the War on Terror because of race and not because the terrorists are Islamic radicals. That is, of course, utter nonsense.

[Jon Miller]

That is a small group of Muslims. Just like the abortion bombings were done by a small group of (mostly) Christians. Most muslims just want to live their life. They, being from poorer countries in general, have a distinct anti-western slant because we have continued to allow our corporations to **** on them.

It is telling that many in South/Central America don't like us all that much either, despite being Catholic mostly.

Many of them view Israel as just another example of the West ****ting on them (which is of course not true, but it is true that Israel is a western nation). If the muslim countries were well off, the people I mean, not the few rich leaders, we wouldn't see the general dislike towards the west which does exist.

Jon Miller

[Lorizael]

Ned, my best friend as a child was Muslim. He only tried to blow himself up in my house once or twice. How do you explain his generous humanity compared to the rest of Muslims?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
This isn't a war on Islam Ned.

If you want to make it a religious war, then expect to see many christian US citizens be against you.

JM

JM, it certainly is unless you say that our war has nothing to do with radical Islam.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
That is a small group of Muslims. Just like the abortion bombings were done by a small group of (mostly) Christians. Most muslims just want to live their life. They, being from poorer countries in general, have a distinct anti-western slant because we have continued to allow our corporations to **** on them.

....

Many of them view Israel as just another example of the West ****ting on them (which is of course not true, but it is true that Israel is a western nation). If the muslim countries were well off, the people I mean, not the few rich leaders, we wouldn't see the general dislike towards the west which does exist.

Jon Miller

This is utter nonsense and you know it.

[Jon Miller]

It should have nothing to do with Islam at all. It should just be against a terrorist (freedom fighting) cell.

Just like against the Irish terrorists should have been (and mostly was) against that terrorist cell instead of against all Catholics or Irish.

The fact that this cell is Islamic instead of Catholic has no meaning, other than that the Muslim world has been getting oppressed by their leadership and our corporations for quite some time (just like hindus and many asians, but to a lesser extant I think).

JM