Woman Beaten For Not Moving To The Back Of The Bus

[Lorizael]

I'm not really sure socialism can be blamed here, but rather religious fundamentalism. While this socialist bus line may be new, I would imagine that the sentiment amongst the Haredi is not.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


My understanding is that internecine fights (generally rare) usually involve some combination of shoving and beard pulling.

Luckily I don't have a beard and would choose not to take advantage of that weakness...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Lorizael
I'm not really sure socialism can be blamed here, but rather religious fundamentalism. While this socialist bus line may be new, I would imagine that the sentiment amongst the Haredi is not.

the company isnt new, it goes back to the 1930s. the other main bus company in Israel, Dan, was also a coop, but is now a private company, IIUC.

My point wasnt to blame socialism, but to show that the establishment of gender segregated lines is simply a response to consumer demand. Its not part of our culture, and I dont like it, but its hardly preventing women from getting around. What was IMPROPER here was the use of violence to enforce gender segregation that wasnt authorized. And of course its chillul hashem - a profanation of the name - IE an act that brings the Jewish religion into disrepute, and so is a major sin, above and beyond the substantive wrong. SOME haredim arent too good about things like this, and the community in Mea Shearim and neighboring parts of Jerusalem is particularly bad (it should be noted that they were there before the Zionists came, and some of them think theyd be better off with an Islamist state)

[KrazyHorse]

What was IMPROPER here was the use of violence to enforce gender segregation that wasnt authorized

It is improper either to use violence to enforce gender segregation or to attempt to enforce gender segregation when it wasn't authorised.

I don't think you disagree with that; I just wanted to point out that what you said could be interpreted differently.

[General Ludd]

Muslims Jews.

[Verto]

Jewish tendency to organize and kill Gentiles
Jewish tendency to organize and defend a 50 year old woman

Oh, wait.

Coward J00z

Backwards religion

[Verto]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


the company isnt new, it goes back to the 1930s. the other main bus company in Israel, Dan, was also a coop, but is now a private company, IIUC.

My point wasnt to blame socialism, but to show that the establishment of gender segregated lines is simply a response to consumer demand. Its not part of our culture, and I dont like it, but its hardly preventing women from getting around. What was IMPROPER here was the use of violence to enforce gender segregation that wasnt authorized. And of course its chillul hashem - a profanation of the name - IE an act that brings the Jewish religion into disrepute, and so is a major sin, above and beyond the substantive wrong. SOME haredim arent too good about things like this, and the community in Mea Shearim and neighboring parts of Jerusalem is particularly bad (it should be noted that they were there before the Zionists came, and some of them think theyd be better off with an Islamist state)

What is IMPROPER here is for gender segregation to be allowed in the first place, you dumb*ss.

[KrazyHorse]

For some reason I see Haredi Jews fighting Matrix-style.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Verto


What is IMPROPER here is for gender segregation to be allowed in the first place, you dumb*ss.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Verto


What is IMPROPER here is for gender segregation to be allowed in the first place, you dumb*ss.

by a private company? Somebody better tell the folks at Curves to shut down their gyms (and yes, I know the issue of natural monopolies in public transit comes up, but I doubt the existing Mehadrin lines are difficult to avoid) Look, they have a different culture. than we do. Than 90% of Israelis do. Theyre ALLOWED to have a different culture.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

What was IMPROPER here was the use of violence to enforce gender segregation that wasnt authorized

It is improper either to use violence to enforce gender segregation or to attempt to enforce gender segregation when it wasn't authorised.

I don't think you disagree with that; I just wanted to point out that what you said could be interpreted differently.

I didnt state it that way, cause if it was a mehadrin line, and a person refused to obey the gender seg that was a condition of riding, he or she would be subject I presume to being removed without their consent, and while it doesnt thrill me that the Mehadrin lines exist, and i dont know enough about Israeli transit franchise law to know the extent that the State is implicated in their existence, I wouldnt count that in the same category as the incident in the OP.

[Verto]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


by a private company? Somebody better tell the folks at Curves to shut down their gyms (and yes, I know the issue of natural monopolies in public transit comes up, but I doubt the existing Mehadrin lines are difficult to avoid) Look, they have a different culture. than we do. Than 90% of Israelis do. Theyre ALLOWED to have a different culture.

Where's the huge uproar over the persecution of Jews?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Winston
That's horrible.

Still, if she'd taken a bus here in Copenhagen she'd have run a severe risk of being verbally abused, harrassed, spat at and beaten simply on account of her religion, if she showed it openly. That's how bad it has gotten for the small Jewish minority, who have been living peacefully among the rest of the population for over 300 years, right up until the recent mass immigration of Muslims, according to a feature article in my paper the other day.

Jewish people cannot wear the Star of David on a neck chain or the traditional cap in public in Copenhagen anymore, they have to take special precautions when entering or leaving the Synagoge in central Copenhagen, and there have been examples of Jewish educators being advised by school authorities not to seek employment at inner Copenhagen schools where the percentage of Muslim immigrant children run in the 80s and 90s.

This is sheer madness, but it's the actual state of affairs in Copenhagen in 2006.

Looks like the King has again put on the Star of David and ride out of the palace like when the Nazis took over.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Verto
Jewish tendency to organize and defend a 50 year old woman

That wasnt organized,it was a mob, in essence. I was referring to the various groups that have reached out to help this woman (and which are presumably vieing for the opportunity to take her case to Israeli court)

Oh, wait.

Coward J00z

Lovely.

Backwards religion

Obviusly I see Hassidism as in some sense backward, or I wouldnt be a Conservative Jew instead. Personally I dont think this is so much a religious imperative (theres certainly no halacha - jewish religious law - supporting it) Gender seg is more a social custom of the most conservative groups - and IMHO even most of those who defend the social custom, would denounce such violence.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Verto


Where's the huge uproar over the persecution of Jews?

Er did you miss that several orgs took her case, and that there was a newspaper article about it. Its still not clear what happened.