Senate Report: Gore Lies, Media Biased, Advocates Misrepresent

[KrazyHorse]

wtf pekka?

[Pekka]

Well maybe you should have read what I posted, you would most likely agree with me.

[KrazyHorse]

Honey, I never read what you post.

Just the first sentence, generally.

[Ned]

Pekka, in a sense, you are right. Almost all the noise is political. But, you do have to admit that there is a concerted effort on the left to silence dissent. That't the whole point of this thread in the first place.

I also tend to agree with the column by Patrick Michaels that GW exists, but it is very moderate, there is very little we can do about it and due to its slowness in termperature rise, we can an are adapting quite well, thank you.

[Pekka]

I don't know if there is an effort from the left to silence dissent, simply because I don't live there and haven't followed the media considering this issue so much.. it's not really my area of interest, global warming.

So it might be so, I don't know. But what I do know is ever since then enviromentalist movement was hijacked by leftwing politicians, this is not to say they were traditional left wing that did it, but that the hijackers do go into that end of the spectrum, I already lost my belief in the politics of that.

You can't base a whole party (example the green party) on environment and thne kind of wing the rest. If you claim, that it's an ideology or grand theory of any kind, I just have to disagree with that. Adn I'm not saying you have to have a grand theory in order to do politics, but I'm just saying, a lot of the hype is political. It's a kind of thinking where good goals and intention leads to unrational measures of what should be done.

And there's money in it too, so it really is a turn off for me.

But that doesn't mean the right wing isn't making it political also. There's lots of politics from the right in it also, and it seems to me the left and the right see each other as political enemies, so we are losing all kinds of good ideas because there's a battle going on, and this is universal.

When it comes to environment, I think we need to listen to specialists and scientists. They KNOW the issue. We can't just ... get the facts from politicians, because those facts vary, depending who you ask from.

And just like any field, some scientists disagree with each other as well, so I just base my position on what the general consensus is within the scientific community.

[Sandman]

re heat islands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_heat_island

The Wikipedia article on urban heat islands appears fairly authorative, and it mercilessly debunks the folk science of attributing most or all of global warming to the phenomenon.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Pekka
Well maybe you should have read what I posted, you would most likely agree with me.

I read what you posted, and I agree. Most of the time in Polictics people just argue and never get anything done.

[Solly]

Re: re heat islands

Originally posted by Sandman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_heat_island

The Wikipedia article on urban heat islands appears fairly authorative, and it mercilessly debunks the folk science of attributing most or all of global warming to the phenomenon.

I suggest you acquaint yourself with some of the "interests" of the guys who run wikipedia abd contribute to its global warming comments.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Odin
Looks like winter has been officially canceled in the Alps...

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article2081644.ecehttp://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article2081644.ece

In other news it got to 40F today in Fargo, it was up near 50F a few days ago. There is no snow on the ground except for a few patches is shady spots. This is FARGO we are talking about, whe're supposed to be knee-deep in the white stuff and be having -30F wind chills by now. It's almost Christmas and it feels like October.

Due to the autumn predominance of south-westerly winds.

[Sandman]

Re: Re: re heat islands

Originally posted by Park Avenue
I suggest you acquaint yourself with some of the "interests" of the guys who run wikipedia abd contribute to its global warming comments.

"Another view, often held by skeptics of global warming, is that the heat island effect accounts for much or nearly all warming recorded by land-based thermometers. However, these views are mainly presented in "popular literature" and there are no known scientific peer-reviewed papers holding this view. Some have argued for an ill-defined "influence" of the UHI on the temperature records without attempting to quantify it - for example Richard Lindzen in 1990."

Is this correct, or is it wrong? Are there any peer-reviewed scientific papers which advance the global warming = urban heat island theory?

[Solly]

What's this whole obsession with peer-review? It's is far short of fail-safe.

I suggest a simple experiment. Take a thermometer into the middle of London on a clear night. Look at thermometer. Then take it 20 miles outside of London into the countryside. Measure temperature.

Alternatively watch weather forecasts and listen to the regular comments, "these are the temperatures in the towns and cities, it'll be colder in rural parts".

[KrazyHorse]

You're a dolt.

[Sandman]

That urban heat islands exist is not disputed. However, the belief that they are the sole or principal cause of global warming is not supported by any evidence whatsoever.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Sandman
That urban heat islands exist is not disputed. However, the belief that they are the sole or principal cause of global warming is not supported by any evidence whatsoever.

My position is that it hasn't been thoroughly explored (and "urban heat islands" is a misnomer - it's more complex than that).

However, my hunch is that it contributes somewhat to the apparent warming, given the disparity between the surface and atmospheric temperature records, and that recording stations tend to be positioned in places that have experienced explosive population growth.

KH, you are serving no purpose.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
My position is that it hasn't been thoroughly explored (and "urban heat islands" is a misnomer - it's more complex than that).

Urban heat islands are a fairly well-studied phenomenon. What exactly is there to explore?