Senate Report: Gore Lies, Media Biased, Advocates Misrepresent

[Straybow]

But we have to. Dead horses are a major cause of global warming.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Odin
The "GW is a artifact of the urban heat island effect" theory was debunked years ago, quit beating a dead horse.

The question is whether the heat island effect has any effect on(surface mainly) temperature measurements over time. While the cited reports seems to show that they do not, there is still the matter that there are discrepancies. For example, NYC shows a temperature rise while Kingston NY, just 40 miles up the Hudson, does not. This does suggest, does it not, that there may be some increase in measured temperatures at a location due to inreased urbanization at or near the location.

There is also the matter of why the data for America shows a greater rise in temperatures as a whole than less urbanized areas of the world. Either the US is gettng selectively warmer, or the measurements are being unsually affected by US urbanization.

[KrazyHorse]

The US is not particularly urbanised.

[Jon Miller]

It was like summer here today.

JM

[KrazyHorse]

Yeah. Here too. 23C (74F)

[Ned]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The US is not particularly urbanised.

But the temperature sensors are generally located in or near cities.

[Ned]

GW is expected to operate mainly by making winters milder, somehting we should all FEAR.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned


But the temperature sensors are generally located in or near cities.

I call bull****. Even if there are a disproportionate number near cities I find it hard to believe that any scientist would fail to weight their measurements to correct for this.

This sounds like you being an ignoramus again.

[Ned]

OK, KH, how would you know whether a temperature increase measured at an urban sensor was measuring "heat island" increases versus global increases. I would think that you would compare them to sensors located remotely from any urban area. In fact, I would tend to ignore urban sensors altogether when attempting to measure global temperatures. Wouldn't you?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned
OK, KH, how would you know whether a temperature increase measured at an urban sensor was measuring "heat island" increases versus global increases. I would think that you would compare them to sensors located remotely from any urban area. In fact, I would tend to ignore urban sensors altogether when attempting to measure global temperatures. Wouldn't you?

Possibly.

[KrazyHorse]

By the way, there are a number of studies showing that there is virtually no difference between a global mean temperature derived using urban+rural measurements and that derived using solely rural measurements.

There are also no papers in any reputable journal which manage to put the heat island effect on the same scale as the observed increase in global mean temperature over the last century.

Basically, it's a bunch of pseudoscientific mumbo-jumbo.

[Ned]

KH, I was unaware of studies using only rural sensors. If they exist, I would assume they would refute the skeptics on this point. What I have heard of, though, is the comparison between Kingston and NYC. The two locations, only miles apart, are said to show dramatically different temperature increases. (Actually, it is said that Kingston shows no increase at all.)

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by Ned
What I have heard of, though, is the comparison between Kingston and NYC. The two locations, only miles apart, are said to show dramatically different temperature increases. (Actually, it is said that Kingston shows no increase at all.)

I don't really see where you're going with this.
NYC increasing fast in temperature doesn't surprise anyone.
So basically your point is the rural station of Kingston registered no measurable increase. Even if true, so what?
Global Warming is global meaning that it is statistical, at the planet level.
Some models of global warming even predict slight cooling in some areas.

[Ned]

The point, of course, is that any data that relies at all on urban sensors is suspect in an attempt to determine global increases, as the data might instead be showing urban heat island increases.

KH's point that there are studies that rely only on rural data in intriguing. Anyone have a link to such a study or report?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned
KH, I was unaware of studies using only rural sensors. If they exist, I would assume they would refute the skeptics on this point. What I have heard of, though, is the comparison between Kingston and NYC. The two locations, only miles apart, are said to show dramatically different temperature increases. (Actually, it is said that Kingston shows no increase at all.)

Are you ****ing kidding me?

Do you seriously not understand the difference between a global mean temperature and the measurement of temperature at an individual location?

If this is the type of "evidence" you're basing your opinions on then I think you've managed quite clearly to pwn yourself.