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Steal a PS3, and SWAT will kill you. And your dog, too.

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  • #76
    Originally posted by SlowwHand
    No doubt. Like raise your children not to be violent thieves.
    The kid is was clearly a violent thief and deserved to be locked up for a bit.

    But let's shift our priorities to the real world...we can't have cops gunning down kids for no reason whatsoever. Focus, Sloww, Focus.

    Your inexplicable ability to kiss ass to authority when they blatantly abuse their powers is very unnerving.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Lord Avalon

      I think it depends on what the laws are in the area. And it's not like this was a stray bullet.

      How does a 12-yr vet mistake the sound of a battering ram on door as a gunshot?

      "Murder" in most jurisdictions requires some element of premeditation.

      Manslaughter is generally "heat of the moment". IF you insulted me while I am standing there with a bat and I swingit and kill you, that would generally be manslaughter.

      Here, unless there was evidence that the guy planned to kill the suspect . .. . we are left with a police officer armed pursuant to legal authority. He uses far too much force in the circumstances-- IT could be manslaughter or even "criminal negligence"-- A lot will depend on facts we don't have.

      If the battering ram did actually sound like a shot and the suspect WAS holding something that could be reasonably mistaken for a gun, the guy might even be acquitted. I don't believe those were the facts but to me, if you put a SWAT guy there, they are trained to use deadly force in certain situations.


      I wonder how much of the firing is the authorities covering their own asses here. Because to me the decision to send a SWAT team could be considered to be much worse than anything a SWAT member does "in the moment". The executive decision can be planned and deliberate. The SWAT guy has to make a call in a second

      I actually don't envy them their job. If you delay until you are sure an object is a gun, perhaps one of your team gets dead.
      You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

      Comment

      • #78
        Originally posted by Asher

        The kid is was clearly a violent thief and deserved to be locked up for a bit.
        .
        Yup

        Originally posted by Asher



        But let's shift our priorities to the real world...we can't have cops gunning down kids for no reason whatsoever. Focus, Sloww, Focus.
        I agree fully. I think the police bosses that ordered SWAT in there have some serious explaining to do. Even if you felt you needed SWAT on hand, why not just surround the house and call for them to come out. There were no hostages or suiceide bombers or any other need for pre-emptive action.

        Once you start sending people into these situation guns drawn, I think just a normal number of very human f***-ups will end up in results like this
        You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

        Comment

        • #79
          Originally posted by SlowwHand
          No doubt. Like raise your children not to be violent thieves.
          Just wanted to confirm your opinion: So you think that parents are to be blamed when a child misbehaves?

          That's a bit at odds with your support of the police and defending the lack of parenting in a prior thread.
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

          Comment

          • #80
            Originally posted by Asher

            Just wanted to confirm your opinion: So you think that parents are to be blamed when a child misbehaves?
            AS a parent -- I'll jump on that one. If a young child misbehaves, that continuing behavior is absolutely at the feet of the parents. You have control and power.


            When an older teen or adult child misbehaves, the parents have some responsibility for their failure to instill better values and behaviors but ultimately a parent is powerless
            You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

            Comment

            • #81
              Originally posted by Flubber
              AS a parent -- I'll jump on that one. If a young child misbehaves, that continuing behavior is absolutely at the feet of the parents. You have control and power.

              When an older teen or adult child misbehaves, the parents have some responsibility for their failure to instill better values and behaviors but ultimately a parent is powerless
              So, in summary, when an 11 year old, for instance, opens a christmas present early -- is this something that's completely out of the hands of the parent?

              This is in contrast to let's say, an 18-year old who is a thief. That is clearly the fault of the parent.

              Right Sloww?
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment

              • #82
                @ Flubber
                I think you're thinking more of 1st degree murder. According to Find Law, http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a...nd_degree.html
                Murder: Second degree
                Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.
                Also DAs often charge for a higher crime, settle for lesser.
                Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin
                Iain Banks missed deadline due to Civ | The eyes are the groin of the head. - Dwight Schrute.
                One more turn .... One more turn .... | WWTSD

                Comment

                • #83
                  Originally posted by Lord Avalon
                  @ Flubber
                  I think you're thinking more of 1st degree murder. According to Find Law, http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a...nd_degree.html

                  Also DAs often charge for a higher crime, settle for lesser.
                  Nope I understand those distinctions-- sorry if I was not precise. I just see this as more of a "heat of passion" type case. IT probably is the case that the DA is charging the higher and attempting to convict or plead for one of the lesser includeds.

                  I just can't see murder when someone essentially makes a mistake. Yes its a grievous terrible awful mistake that perhaps no reasonable officer should make but I haven't heard anything else as to a motive. Up until the moment he pulled the trigger, the officer was legally authorized to be doing everything he did so I don't really see it as a course of dangerous conduct either
                  You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                  Comment

                  • #84
                    It will probably work its way down to Manslaughter, but 2nd Degree would qualify (depending on the state, of course, as different states have different definitions) as it was done with a lack of concern for human life - ie, the corporal fired his weapon apparently not concerned that he might kill someone. I suppose the circumstances around why he pulled the trigger would determine whether or not it qualifies as reckless action, though.
                    <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                    I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                    • #85
                      Follow along, Asher. They don't just set up a camp site and play waiting game.
                      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                      • #86
                        Huh?
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment

                        • #87
                          Oops - the murder charge has been dismissed "by mistake".

                          Error
                          http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/12/playstation.theft.ap/index.html
                          Error
                          "Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
                          "I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
                          "Stuie is right...." - Guynemer

                          Comment

                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Stuie
                            Oops - the murder charge has been dismissed "by mistake".

                            http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/12/pl....ap/index.html
                            ooops indeed
                            You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                            Comment

                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Stuie
                              Oops - the murder charge has been dismissed "by mistake".

                              http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/12/pl....ap/index.html
                              Originally posted by SlowwHand



                              My ass is covered. I'm saying let the investigation run it's course.

                              The investigation is over, it seems...
                              RIAA sucks
                              The Optimistas
                              I'm a political cartoonist

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                              • #90
                                Whenever law enforcement officers fire their service weapons, it is standard procedure for them to be put on paid leave.
                                Cool, need some time off? Pop a cap in some perp...
                                Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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