Spink in Race Row

[Arrian]

Hell, I've been arrested. I was not, however, convicted of any crime (no contest plea, fine). No stats on me!

-Arrian

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp



New Zealanders who emigrate to the USA are far more likely to molest children than any other social grouping.

Do you think I should back that statement up? It casts no aspersions on any individual, after all. Now I think I should be required to back it up if I want it to be taken seriously. Do you?

You are comparing a specific crime with general criminality, and two groups that are radically different in size. Besides, Americans can see for themselves the link between blacks and crime.

[Arrian]

Bigots who are convinced of the inferiority of blacks can "see" such a link.

Others might see a host of environmental factors as the cause.

-Arrian

[MikeH]

Humans are great at seeing patterns that don't exist.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by MikeH


I do.

I've bought, sold and posessed drugs class B and class A drugs. I've stolen. Vandalised stuff. Been drunken disorderly. Trespassed.

Probably more.

Never been arrested though.

As a middle class white student though, this would all be written off as student fun rather than serious criminal behaviour. Looks quite bad written down like that...

Under UK law supply of drugs includes buying some for your friends etc.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

What's this train of thought? It's OK to make uncorroborated and prejudicial statements just as long as you keep it really vague and aimed at loads of people? Christ on a bike, you're a weird one.

[Arrian]

No, it's ok to make uncorroborated and prejudicial statements about darkies. Nice white Kiwis, otoh, are off limits!

-Arrian

[MikeH]

When I went to New Zealand I did find they were a bit racist.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by MikeH
I think that there's no evidence of any genetic factor in predisposition to crime.

Despite the fact that you believe ther to be a genetic factor, you have admitted in this thread that you think environment does play some part in criminality. can't prove that there is a genetic factor, you just think it makes more sense than purely environmental factors.



And would you agree that black groups in the US are mainly poorer than white groups?



So based on the fact that you agree environment plays a part, and have absolutely no proof that there's any genetic race factor in a person's predisposition to commit crime, Laz and I maintain that the fact you hold on to this belief that Black people are more likely to be criminals purely because of their race is a racist view and has no logical, proven, factual basis. As you say, it's an opinion, and as it's a negative opinion based purely on race, it's by definition a racist one.

I hold that opinion because it explains what I see around me and because I am not advocating any action that would cause harm if my opinion were wrong. Treating people as individuals will not harm others if it turns out that groups are equal, but trying to equalize group differences will cause harm if it turns out that groups are different. You need to consider that you could be wrong in your beliefs, and assess the harm that could be caused if you are wrong.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


Because nearly everybody breaks the law. I do. Do you?

Yes, but not all crimes are equal, so it's rather meaningless to say that everybody breaks the law unless you think murder is equal to speeding.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Arrian


Because it seems to always lead to "we're (inherently) better than them."

The matrix of factors is so complex that I cannot understand how anyone could possibly parse out a genetic factor and determine its impact. The only reason I could see for trying is bigotry.

-Arrian

Surely genes or environment are the only two possible factors - what 3rd option is there? The 100% environment view leads to bigotry just as surely as the 100% genes view. I am in the middle, believing that both could be a factor.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Arrian
Bigots who are convinced of the inferiority of blacks can "see" such a link.

Others might see a host of environmental factors as the cause.

-Arrian

For environment to be the only acceptable factor you must show that the genetic factor is equal. We don't know enough about genes to pin anything down, so you are operating on an assumption.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
What's this train of thought? It's OK to make uncorroborated and prejudicial statements just as long as you keep it really vague and aimed at loads of people? Christ on a bike, you're a weird one.

The "white racism" accusation is also uncorroborated and prejudicial. Strange that you would think this acceptable.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Surely genes or environment are the only two possible factors - what 3rd option is there? The 100% environment view leads to bigotry just as surely as the 100% genes view. I am in the middle, believing that both could be a factor.

Why does 100% environment lead to bigotry? Does. Not. Compute.

Further, it's possible that genetics could be a factor. I find it highly implausible, however, given all the various environmental (and/or "other") factors that are in play, that genetics is a particularly important factor. Combine that with the fact that linking genetics and group behavior (particularly negative behavior such as crime) is consistently used by bigots to justify their bigotry, and I find your position to be thoroughly repulsive.

Did you get mugged by a Maori as a child or something?

-Arrian

[Arrian]

The "white racism" accusation is also uncorroborated...

That's hilarious.

Incidently, it seems to me that people of all races are racists. "White" people were just racists in power.

-Arrian