Spink in Race Row

[Gibsie]

Link

So, paraphrased, this Spink guy sez most criminals are black; now he's actually correct going by the figures, so is it racist to point this out? But then, Spinks are usually racists...

[Caligastia]

Can the truth be racist?

[Spec]

No.

How is it racist if its a fact?

And another stupid study...Everyone knows that more crimes are commited by black people.

The culture today makes it cool to be all ghetto and gangster, poor and in the hood. Its not helping either.

Stupid kids trying to follow the lead....omg....Some are lucky enough not to live in ghettos, why represent it?!

Spec.

[Barnabas]

ghetto´s dont look bad to me (I mean the infrestructure, houses, streets with asphalt, they have tvs, cable tv, bathroom, kitchen etc)

That would be middle class in most of latin america, they (black americans who live iun ghettos) should realize that they arent really poor

[Arrian]

It's not racist to cite a statistic. Said statistic can be used to justify a racist position or policy, however.

It is one thing to say: "green people are more likely to save their money than blue people." It is another to say that "blue people are inherently inferior" and use the statistic to support that assertion.

-Arrian

[Dinner]

At least in the US most criminals are not black though blacks do have a higher rate of criminal conduct then other groups. That has more to do with poverty and urban living (ghettoization) then anything else.

[Aeson]

I think if you do look at race simply as % stuff like this, it's racist. It's assuming that race is a factor in it, based only on circumstantial evidence. As race is inherently genetic, if you want to show that race is a factor, then you should show on a genetic level how crime is facilitated genetically.

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by Aeson
I think if you do look at race simply as % stuff like this, it's racist. It's assuming that race is a factor in it, based only on circumstantial evidence. As race is inherently genetic, if you want to show that race is a factor, then you should show on a genetic level how crime is facilitated genetically.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.
Quoting a statistics is NOT racist.
Going any further CAN be.

[Aeson]

Actually, studying something does imply that you think there is a correllation. Otherwise it's a useless thing to study. When you bring it up, you are implying there is a relevence to it. Otherwise it's a useless thing to say.

So I guess if you have absolutely no aims whatsoever, you can do whatever you want... er... do whatever you don't want... and nothing you do has any intent. But people don't operate that way. Everything we do is enacted on some conscious or subconscious intent.

[Elok]

I think you're missing his point, Aeson. Correlation does not imply causation. The two could be linked in various ways other than the simple, "black people are predisposed to thuggery." It could be economic reasons. It could be the lack of positive black role models or the large number of single black mothers. It could be that black people are turning to crime out of frustration with that lame-ass "I'm Rick James, *****" meme that's been floating around for years and wasn't funny the first time. Or any combination of the above, or others. We don't know.

[Provost Harrison]

Interesting surname

I think there is also some indicativeness of the relative lack of prosperity of black society in London. Let us be honest, they are the most economically disadvantaged, and those least educated on the whole in society and more predisposed to these activities - very sad really.

The problem in London is the sheer disparity between the rich and the poor which has continued to worsen. A working class young man in London must feel absolutely hopeless in the face of the sheer cost of living in this city.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Aeson
Actually, studying something does imply that you think there is a correllation. Otherwise it's a useless thing to study. When you bring it up, you are implying there is a relevence to it. Otherwise it's a useless thing to say.

A is the biggest cause of B
A is the biggest cause of C

B and C have strong correlation and yet have little or no causal relation whatsoever. You are left to deduce that there is a commonality A which is a useful deduction as you can still use B as an indirect measure of C.

It's why certain ethnic groups are profiled for certain hereditary diseases. The fact someone is white has no relation to the fact that they have an increased chance of lactose tolerance - but you can use the commonality to say that a white person is more likely to be lactose tolerance that other ethnicities.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Elok
Correlation does not imply causation.

Unsupported correlation based on race is racist. If there are genetic traits inherent to the race (not present in other races) that lead to crime, then race could be presented as a factor. Otherwise it's just thinly veiled racism trying to hide behind meaningless statistics.

It could be economic reasons.

That is not a racial correlation. If economics are a factor, they are a factor regardless of race.

It could be the lack of positive black role models or the large number of single black mothers.

If single motherhood is a factor, it is a factor regardless of race. Same with positive role models.

There is no need to bring race into it unless you think that there is a racial factor involved. So by bringing race into it at all, you are implying it is a factor.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Dauphin


A is the biggest cause of B
A is the biggest cause of C

B and C have strong correlation and yet have little or no causal relation whatsoever. You are left to deduce that there is a commonality A which is a useful deduction as you can still use B as an indirect measure of C.

It's why certain ethnic groups are profiled for certain hereditary diseases. The fact someone is white has no relation to the fact that they have an increased chance of lactose tolerance - but you can use the commonality to say that a white person is more likely to be lactose tolerance that other ethnicities.

So show the genetic tendancy for crime. Or admit it just has nothing to do with race.

[Dauphin]

Lactose tolerance has nothing to do with race either, it's a cultural phenomena.

Doesn't mean the correlation with race doesn't exist.