Spink in Race Row

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Caligastia


In the end, that's all either of us has in an online discussion - opinion. So you need to explain why you feel your position should be the default.

Because we're all just people, honeychild- and as far as I'm concerned, anyone casting aspersions on others should be prepared to back it up. And genetic criminality is an aspersion, sure as eggs be eggs.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
The bullies in my head might pose a challenge, but you don't. Do you think you're doing well in this thread?

Doing just fine thanks.

[MikeH]

You're being slaughtered.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by MikeH


If you can prove that, "Among groups of the same economic status, however, there are still differences in crime rates. " is true, you still have to remember that crime rates only reflect conviction rates. Hence Laz's point 3.

3- You have little means of satisfactorily eliminating skewing factors in the very long and vulnerable series of stages that lead to conviction.

Don't tell me you're another one who thinks that all races have equal crime rates.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


Because we're all just people, honeychild- and as far as I'm concerned, anyone casting aspersions on others should be prepared to back it up. And genetic criminality is an aspersion, sure as eggs be eggs.

The belief in genetic equality is far more dangerous IMO. I'm not casting aspersions on any individual, but I won't pretend that all groups are the same when they plainly aren't.

[Arrian]

Why ignore all the other possible factors? Wealth and lack thereof? Education and lack thereof? Racism vs. a particular group resulting in higher conviction rates... that's just off the top of my head.

But that's all unimportant, right? What really matters is that those dirty darkies are filthy criminals at heart.

-Arrian

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by MikeH
You're being slaughtered.

...says the Laz cheerleader.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

It would actually be highly unlikely for all races to have exactly equal crime rates. However I think that if we totted up the numbers of all people in each sector of the community who were criminals, I think the figures would be remarkably similar.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Arrian
Why ignore all the other possible factors? Wealth and lack thereof? Education and lack thereof? Racism vs. a particular group resulting in higher conviction rates... that's just off the top of my head.

But that's all unimportant, right? What really matters is that those dirty darkies are filthy criminals at heart.

-Arrian

Another one who doesn't bother to read my posts. I've always agreed that environment is a major factor. No doubt - blacks are capable of doing a lot better. I just don't think environment explains everything. Why is that so terrible?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
It would actually be highly unlikely for all races to have exactly equal crime rates. However I think that if we totted up the numbers of all people in each sector of the community who were criminals, I think the figures would be remarkably similar.

Why do you think that would be the case?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Caligastia


The belief in genetic equality is far more dangerous IMO. I'm not casting aspersions on any individual, but I won't pretend that all groups are the same when they plainly aren't.

New Zealanders who emigrate to the USA are far more likely to molest children than any other social grouping.

Do you think I should back that statement up? It casts no aspersions on any individual, after all. Now I think I should be required to back it up if I want it to be taken seriously. Do you?

[MikeH]

I think that there's no evidence of any genetic factor in predisposition to crime.

Despite the fact that you believe ther to be a genetic factor, you have admitted in this thread that you think environment does play some part in criminality. can't prove that there is a genetic factor, you just think it makes more sense than purely environmental factors.

Originally posted by Caligastia wealthier groups tend not to have as much of a problem with crime - no matter what their race.

And would you agree that black groups in the US are mainly poorer than white groups?

Originally posted by Caligastia
No, I'm saying that both are likely a factor. I can't prove it absolutely, but it makes more sense than blaming it on 100% environment.

So based on the fact that you agree environment plays a part, and have absolutely no proof that there's any genetic race factor in a person's predisposition to commit crime, Laz and I maintain that the fact you hold on to this belief that Black people are more likely to be criminals purely because of their race is a racist view and has no logical, proven, factual basis. As you say, it's an opinion, and as it's a negative opinion based purely on race, it's by definition a racist one.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Why do you think that would be the case?

Because nearly everybody breaks the law. I do. Do you?

[Arrian]

I've always agreed that environment is a major factor. No doubt - blacks are capable of doing a lot better. I just don't think environment explains everything. Why is that so terrible?

Because it seems to always lead to "we're (inherently) better than them."

The matrix of factors is so complex that I cannot understand how anyone could possibly parse out a genetic factor and determine its impact. The only reason I could see for trying is bigotry.

-Arrian

p.s. I've read your posts. I just happen to be capable of discarding the obvious bull****.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


Because nearly everybody breaks the law. I do. Do you?

I do.

I've bought, sold and posessed drugs class B and class A drugs. I've stolen. Vandalised stuff. Been drunken disorderly. Trespassed.

Probably more.

Never been arrested though.