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Rumsfeld to resign

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  • #31



    CNN and Clinton. What a team.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Arrian
      It depends on what we intend to ask of our military. If we aren't planning on occupation/reconstruction, Rummy's ideas were good - a fast, flexible, powerful but relatively small military. But then we went and invaded Iraq, which called for a larger, more traditional force...

      If we had stayed away from the occupation/reconstruction thing, as Bush initially wanted to pre-9/11, Rummy's style might've worked well. But Iraq's just too big and populous, it seems.
      Except the lack of emphasis on occupation/reconstruction was costing us in Afghan, and IMO that was quite independent of the resources used in Iraq. Its simply absurd, in a world filled with failed or failing states, and in which global links make us vulnerable to what happens anywhere, to NOT have the ability to occupy/reconstruct, and to have an orientation SO much against it.

      No, I dont think you can pin Rummys failure on the decision to go into Iraq. Its the other way around. Rummys failure was a misreading of the world, and of our relationship to it.

      I suspect this a debate that will go on, and will cross party and "ideological" lines.
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • #33
        Several years late.
        DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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        • #34
          Bush just announced it on my TV news, so the resignation is not a rumour.
          So get your Naomi Klein books and move it or I'll seriously bash your faces in! - Supercitizen to stupid students
          Be kind to the nerdiest guy in school. He will be your boss when you've grown up!

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          • #35


            Bush, concerning Karl Rove: "You know, I obviously was working harder on the campaign trail than he was.."

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            • #36
              Originally posted by SlowwHand



              CNN and Clinton. What a team.
              To us, it is the BEAST.

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              • #37
                Except the lack of emphasis on occupation/reconstruction was costing us in Afghan, and IMO that was quite independent of the resources used in Iraq.
                I don't see it as independent. If we hadn't gone mucking about in Iraq we would have had more resources for Afganistan. I don't understand...

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                • #38


                  A news analytican on my TV:

                  - Rumsfeld is the perfect scape goat, as he is actually guilty!
                  So get your Naomi Klein books and move it or I'll seriously bash your faces in! - Supercitizen to stupid students
                  Be kind to the nerdiest guy in school. He will be your boss when you've grown up!

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                  • #39
                    A what?
                    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                    • #40
                      Is it "Old America" yet?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Arrian


                        I don't see it as independent. If we hadn't gone mucking about in Iraq we would have had more resources for Afganistan. I don't understand...

                        -Arrian
                        Rummy didnt want more troops in Afghanistan anyway, AFAICT. Back in 2002 he said something about how that would make them "too dependent" on us. Now maybe he was lying, and was trying to horde troops for Iraq. Maybe. I dont think his mindset was ever geared toward nation building anywhere, and that, as much as the use of resources in Iraq, was a huge part of the problem in Afghanistan.
                        "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                        • #42
                          So, does Bob Gates get confirmed? Should he be confirmed? Do Democrats stall until the new session?
                          "Remember, there's good stuff in American culture, too. It's just that by "good stuff" we mean "attacking the French," and Germany's been doing that for ages now, so, well, where does that leave us?" - Elok

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                          • #43
                            Judging from Democrats in congress, in Texas, they'll go hole up in a cheap motel and protest.
                            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by lord of the mark


                              Rummy didnt want more troops in Afghanistan anyway, AFAICT. Back in 2002 he said something about how that would make them "too dependent" on us. Now maybe he was lying, and was trying to horde troops for Iraq. Maybe. I dont think his mindset was ever geared toward nation building anywhere, and that, as much as the use of resources in Iraq, was a huge part of the problem in Afghanistan.
                              Since I believe this Admin wanted to attack Iraq for quite some time before they actually went and did it, I tend to think they were already thinking ahead to that. If there had been no Iraq and still Rummy would've opposed more troops (and more money, and more effort in general) for Afganistan, well then I'd agree with you. Obviously we'll never know.

                              I generally agree that "nationbuilding" is crucial if we are to invade/occupy other countries (or "failed states" as it were). But unlike you, I am extremely dubious about invading and occupying other countries. I was before Iraq. Now even moreso.

                              -Arrian
                              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                              The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                              • #45
                                Hopefully Gates will renew Rumsfeld's push to reform and transform the military, which kind of stalled out after 9/11.
                                KH FOR OWNER!
                                ASHER FOR CEO!!
                                GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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