Hamas chief: Truce with Israel is over

[Kuciwalker]

OK, if there's no spin then I guess Europeans still are latent anti-semites, and read from all the unbiased stories that Israel is the evil of the two.

[Pekka]

And how do you back that up? You either have to prove, and not even scientifically but just in your own words, how European media is biased.

Then you have to of course define European media, as no one would be bold enough to say 'Asian media is anti-semitist', because what does Asian media evne mean.

Then if you can not show that, then you have to show how Europeans are anti-semites. Let me rephrase that for you, explain how Europeans are racist.

It would be sufficient to just say how you come to this conclusion. How did you come to this conclusion.. because... ?

[Pekka]

And from what just came in, Finland is 1st in media freedom. HMmmmmm.. so are they just racist then? Or how was that study flawed, if it isn't true?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by dannubis


Don't you guys do that now already ?

Oh no, you're in the habit of just firing a bunch of rockets into a crowd to kill a single target and then you conduct an investigation on how it is possible that a girl got killed in the process.

Anyway, it has brought you peace in the past, and it will bring you the same peace in the future.

They attack to kill militants, and attempt to minimize civilian casualties, sometimes passing up valid targets, yes.

Has it brought peace? Its not clear that any military strategy will bring peace, or that any negotiating strategy will bring peace. Meanwhile they do what they can to reduce as far as possible the level of attacks on their population.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Siro,

People expect a government to be act differently than a terrorist organisation, otherwise, what's the moral difference?

which might be a relevant point if Israel were sending suicide bombers into Pal restaurants, or firing rockets randomly at villages. Thats not whats occuring though, they are attacking valid targets. When a complete mistake occurs, it is investigated, because Israel IS morally different than Hamas.

[dannubis]

LotM,

You don't have to convince me that the Hamas is a cancer on the middle east making peace impossible.

However, The Israeli governement can say they try to avoid civilian casulties but in practice they kill more civilians than hamas who is actually targetting them. So basically, in practice Israel operates on the same level because your governement shows as little respect for human life as hamas does by accepting the "collateral" damage. Saying "it is an accident" works only so many times.

[Pekka]

I don't think that is the difference, I mean, I do believe IDF spends very much time and effort to make clean hits. They do have a reputation of being able to target and execute with pretty good accurance on average.

They're always dealing with crowds and difficult scenarios.

I base my bias on the fact that Israel can control itself, whereas Hamas can not. Hamas promise is an empty promise. Even if they wanted to, there can always be other terrorist fractions willing to continue. And I don't believe they will stop.

So, counter or not, you would be facing attacks on civilians at all times no matter what. So what the IDF is doing, is what LOTM suggests, counter those, prevent some strikes before they happen etc.

There's tons of times when we hear that IDF did as trike on a group adn prevented an attack before it happened. Tons of those come out all the time, so IMO they have to be on that path even if they want it or not. Because they will get attacks, if they react or don't.

[Kuciwalker]

Then if you can not show that, then you have to show how Europeans are anti-semites.

Which side did Finland join in the war, hmmm?

Let me rephrase that for you, explain how Europeans are racist.

Look at the riots in France.

[DaShi]

That convinced me! Damn all you racist Europeans! You're what's wrong with America!

[Pekka]

"Which side did Finland join in the war, hmmm?"

Are you ****ing serious? Now I'm convinced you are trolling or stupid.

You just owned yourself, kid.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by dannubis
LotM,

You don't have to convince me that the Hamas is a cancer on the middle east making peace impossible.

However, The Israeli governement can say they try to avoid civilian casulties but in practice they kill more civilians than hamas who is actually targetting them. So basically, in practice Israel operates on the same level because your governement shows as little respect for human life as hamas does by accepting the "collateral" damage. Saying "it is an accident" works only so many times.

First of all, MY government is located in Washington DC, and is currently adapting to Tuesdays election. Lets get THAT straight right off. (youd think a US flag, a Virginia address, and sig quote from Hilary Clinton would have made that clear, but I guess not)

Second, I simply dont accept that when one side is trying to make peace, and the other is not, and one side is following the laws of war, and other is committing acts of terrorism, the side defending itself against terrorism has an obligation to only act until the civilian casualties are equal. How many Israelis, do you suppose would have died if Israel did NOT act decisively? Maybe alot more than have done so. Do you count palestinians killed by Hamas? "Informers" and "Collaborators" murdered after trial by kangaroo courts? Hamas vs Fatah violence? Does Israel have to keep seperate accounts for Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade? What you propose is absurd.

Israel should certainly attempt to minimize civilian casualties as it pursues terrorists, for the sake of human life and for its own best interests. But it shouldnt have a "bag limit" based on the number of civilian Israelis killed. This isnt about revenge, and killing to get even, its about actions taken to prevent future terrorist acts.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Which side did Finland join in the war, hmmm?

And now I see you have to gall to fly the flag of Israel. Tasteless

[Pekka]

I'm not even playing this childish game. Not only are you unable to show your original claims to be in the least bit true, you don't know your basic history.

I don't even go to as low as to say look in the mirror and your history, you africa hating, gay bashing, KKK having brat. I don't have to. It would be pointless, just like your arguments.

Grow up and educate yourself to basic level in domains you start debates, or act more humble and stop throwing your 'truths' you have no idea about.

[Kuciwalker]

I'm not even playing this childish game.

That's what everyone says when they're being owned

[Pekka]

Kuci, listen, you better shut the **** up with your trolling. I'm seriously getting pissed off soon.

Do you realize, that some people actually do have living and dead relatives who fought in that war? They didn't decide, much like this country didn't decide to join the war when they were attacked.

Now you should stop trolling already. It's gone far enough.