F-117A retiring. A world mourns.

[thesilentone]

Originally posted by Asher
So Canadians working at Avro Canada developed the Avro Arrow during a point where the company was wholly owned by the Canadian Government.

British involvement is what?

Use your common sense Asher, I know you never let an arguement lie if you're on the losing side, but for once, see sense. The avro arrow started development in 1953, 1 year after the company ceased to be fully british owned. How much do you want to bet they didn't throw away everything they'd learnt from the brits? I'd take that bet at any stakes. Just concede that the UK had a large part in the avro getting off the ground. Not so hard is it?

I like canada! I really do, no need to be so defensive, but really what's so admirable about canada is not from the war years or the post war years, it's from the neutrality and system of government you've kept since then. But we're way off topic, so this ends here.

[Asher]

It ends here because your entire post is made silly given that the post right above you details the Canadian development of the Canadian engine in a Canadian jet by a Canadian corporation.

British involvement was they were once the parent company, legally. Before it was British, it was Canadian -- it was only British for what, 10 years? And those years were not the years the Arrow was in development.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by thesilentone
Just concede that the UK had a large part in the avro getting off the ground. Not so hard is it?

It is hard, if it never did get off the ground

[Asher]

The plane did fly...

[thesilentone]

Originally posted by Asher
It ends here because your entire post is made silly given that the post right above you details the Canadian development of the Canadian engine in a Canadian jet by a Canadian corporation.

British involvement was they were once the parent company, legally. Before it was British, it was Canadian -- it was only British for what, 10 years? And those years were not the years the Arrow was in development.

Sigh...

If you look back at my first post, the one that you've latched onto like a bulldog, as you always do. I was only suggesting that british input was critical. Do you honestly think canada could've done this totally isolated? Are you THAT arrogant? Even the engine, which admittedly was developed by a canadian company, I admit my mistake (alien concept for you? do you EVER do that?) was not developed without british help.

Here's the excerpt I found: (In the wiki for Orenda Aerospace)

"During World War II the National Research Council of Canada ran a small aerodynamics effort similar to NACA in the US or Royal Aircraft Establishment in the UK. In 1942 they sent two of their researchers to the UK to take a survey of their efforts and report back on what fields of study the Canadians should focus on in order to avoid duplication."

Avoid duplication? Implies cooperation no? Suggests we gave them all our research.

[Asher]

You're really grasping at straws now.

British planes sucked post 1945, I sure am glad we didn't use your technology.

It's a huge stretch to say the British were "critical" in the development of the Arrow, given that your entire argument is now based on the assumption that the British gave Canada all of its research, and furthermore this research was utilized by the Canadian engineers building the Arrow for Canada...

I also SINCERELY doubt that any research the UK had in 1942 was not really useful in the development of an ultra-modern jet fighter 15 years later...

[Thorn]

I can't wait till the USA finally annexes Canada, that ought to quiet Ashers national pride.

[Asher]

When you have a country you can be proud of, Thorn, you'll know what this is about.

[thesilentone]

Originally posted by Asher
When you have a country you can be proud of, Thorn, you'll know what this is about.

I really am going to sleep after this. I expected more of you asher.

FACT: Britain owned avro up to 1 year before the avro arrow debuted.

FACT: Much of Canada's aerospace knowledge is owed to Britain.

If you can honestly say britain was not critical to getting the avro developed, you're only fooling yourself.

Goodnight

[Asher]

The 2nd isn't a fact, and the 1st fact is completely irrelevant.

You got pwn3d, my friend. Good night.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Asher
British planes sucked post 1945, I sure am glad we didn't use your technology.

Harriers

Jaguars

And these planes *gasp* actually saw combat, too

[Elok]

Originally posted by Asher

Considering this plane predated all of those by quite some years, that tells you how many things they got right with it...

Wow, you managed to be ten years or more ahead of the curve on "rape our aesthetic sense" trends. Did you get disco in 1958?

[Elok]

Originally posted by Asher
When you have a country you can be proud of, Thorn, you'll know what this is about.

How would you know? You live in Canada. CANADA, for crying out loud.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Asher

Err..

Look at the dates.
1) It's not a copy
2) It outperformed the Mirage categorically
3) It was cancelled for purely political reason, which is still a huge sorepoint in Canadian history (recent films have been produced on it). -- this is also why we don't produce fighter jets today, BTW.

All of the stories that I have read all through the years, tell me the real story is yet to be told. The Arrow was a great plane and it was ahead of its day.

[Dr Strangelove]

From what I've heard the F-22 isn't very stealthy, especially when carrying an external load, which will be most of the time. It originally was supposed to have an advance "active stealth", a type of jamming which was to mask it's position by smudging or cancelling the enemy's radar but the last I heard that feature hadn't lived up to specs.