Is this the Muslim equivalent to an enlightened tyranny?

[Vince278]

Turkey under Attaturk is the best example I can think of.

[Barnabas]

I wish some wealthy musim would help create a university, school of theology, for defending the most reformed views of islam

[LordShiva]

Atheism is the most reformed view of any religion, and there are several atheist universities already

* LordShiva runs to take cover in the "The God Delusion" thread *

[Barnabas]

Actually, if the billion muslims decided to become atheists I would prefer it too, whatever that improves the human rights situation in their countries would be fine for me

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Vince278
Turkey under Attaturk is the best example I can think of.

Of a muslim country desperately trying to pretend it isn't?

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Of a muslim country desperately trying to pretend it isn't?

lol


At least they try!

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Do you think some kind of "forced modernization" will be of any help in Muslim countries or will it just backfire and fuel radicalism even more?

It's not "either...or"; it's "both...and."

Jihad vs. McWorld lays the whole dynamic out beautifully, even though its a bit long and repetitive at points.

And, yes, modern Turkey is a fine example of the dynamic in practice; its also an example of how modernism can triumph, in spite of the backlash. Turkey's a long way from being a Western European secular democracy, but its even a longer way from being Saudi Arabia or even Kuwait.

[mrmitchell]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
Actually, if the billion muslims decided to become atheists I would prefer it too, whatever that improves the human rights situation in their countries would be fine for me

And what if they still hate us? Can you imagine eager terrorist martyrs who can't wait for the heavenly reward of rotting in the ground? NOTHING could stop those guys!

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by BeBro
Yes, he's a dictator without doubt. I'm just wondering if his pro-western/anti-islamist POV is of the usual "I'm allying with western forces and crush any inner opposition to keep my seat" dictator ****, or if he does indeed want to modernize his country (if we agree with his methods is of course another thing).

Ben Ali has been consistent about modernizing his country (except the democratic process, obviously) since he took over. In particular, services and industry have considerably gained in strength under his rule - for example, it used to produce many clothes until a few years ago, and the complete end of protected trade between Europe and Africa. And there is a very important tourism industry there.

From what little I know of Tunisia, it seems the people there are much less traditional than most Arab Muslims, both those in the Middle East, and those in North Africa (who are relatively liberal in comparison). For example, it is the Arabic country where sexual liberation seems the more advanced.

After seeing what happened in Algeria, where the Islamists and the Government engaged in a bloody civil war, after the government denied the Islamists their victory in the 1991 elections, Ben Ali chose to fight against Islamists by restricting Islam. He still sticks to this strategy unlike Baathists.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
And what if they still hate us?

Well, they'd be stronger because they'd be less likely to kill each other for sectarian reasons

[DinoDoc]

How is this action dictatorial behavior when it is practiced within the EU (I'm looking at you Spiff!)?

[Sikander]

Because it's a decision that can be made by one man only, rather than a representative body.

[DinoDoc]

The effect is the same, is it not?

[BeBMan]

But Tunisia isn't in the EU, they only have some kind of association treaty (like others).

[DinoDoc]

I never said that it was in the EU.