Is this the Muslim equivalent to an enlightened tyranny?

[BeBMan]

Well I wasn't sure if that was implied by "within".

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Ben Ali chose to fight against Islamists by restricting Islam. He still sticks to this strategy unlike Baathists.

Yeah, well, not having fought a decade long million casualty war against his neighbor, hes probably less in need of using Islam as an integrative ideology.


Think EU2 - war weariness up, stab down, go narrowminded. Ben Ali is at peace, has higher stab, more homogeneous religiously and ethnically (so lower stab costs) somewhat smaller (so loer stab costs) so he can afford to go more innovative.

Amazing how insightful that game is.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by BeBro
Well I wasn't sure if that was implied by "within".

What I was refering to was the French infringement on the rights of thier citizens.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
How is this action dictatorial behavior when it is practiced within the EU (I'm looking at you Spiff!)?

OK, I'll bite.

There are quite a few differences between Ben ALi's decision and the French law:

1. France bans headscarves as well as all other obvious religious symbols in public schools. That's it. Oh, sorry, we also ban headscarves on ID pictures, as well as all hats. We don't ban headscarves on the streets, nor do we ban them in other public areas than public school (almost all private schools are religious, and can set their own dress code, even those schools that teach the national curriculum and that have their teachers paid by the state).

Have a walk for one day in some areas of Paris, and I bet you'll see more veiled women than you'll do in a year in your neck of the woods. Yeah, that's how the state oppresses Muslim women over here.

There is also no police enforcement of the ban. Should a student adamantly refuse to remove its obvious religious symbol, the student will be expelled from public school until they comply with the regulation. If they refuse to comply, they can go to private schools if they can afford them.

Now, I actually am no fan of that law. I think it is useless, and it only further pushes back the open debate about the renewed place of religion in the French society. A debate we really need. The reason this law exists, is because we try to hold on the compromise that emerged last time this debate occured, in the early 20th century (the complete absence of religion at achool is possibly the most protected part of the dogma that emerged). And there's a reason for that: it was a horrible debate, that completely divided the country; no politician wants to resurrect this unspeakable horror of a debate.

However, there's a world of difference between the French law, and the Tunisian law. In Tunisia, if you're caught with a headscarf on the streets, you might have problems with the police. The difference is quite significant already. You cannot wear headscarves anywhere in the public sphere in Tunisia, lest you face police harassment.

2. But there's not only that. While the French law was aimed at keeping the French specific brand of secularism, the Tunisian law exists solely to curtail the political opposition to Ben Ali. Indeed, just like in Egypt, the only ones who can significantly gather support against Ben Ali are the Islamists, and Ben Ali tries to have them as silenced as possible. Ben Ali uses his power as a ruler to avoid the emergence of an opposition. Pretty dictatorial behaviour, that is completely absent from the French law on religious symbols.

3. Finally, the French law was voted by parliament after a due process, and is constitutional. Again, quite a bit of difference with Ben Ali's.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
The effect is the same, is it not?

You mean the execution of a death sentence in the US is comparable to a slaughter-fest by a tinpot dictator? The effect is the same, after all. Dead is dead.

[Az]

That tunisian dicatator guy

[Barnabas]

Enlightened trannys

[Vince278]

It would be more interesting to ask if there are any Muslim equivalents to a western style democracy.