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Is this the Muslim equivalent to an enlightened tyranny?
Turkey under Attaturk is the best example I can think of.
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)
Atheism is the most reformed view of any religion, and there are several atheist universities already
* LordShiva runs to take cover in the "The God Delusion" thread *
THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF
Actually, if the billion muslims decided to become atheists I would prefer it too, whatever that improves the human rights situation in their countries would be fine for me
Do you think some kind of "forced modernization" will be of any help in Muslim countries or will it just backfire and fuel radicalism even more?
It's not "either...or"; it's "both...and."
Jihad vs. McWorld lays the whole dynamic out beautifully, even though its a bit long and repetitive at points.
And, yes, modern Turkey is a fine example of the dynamic in practice; its also an example of how modernism can triumph, in spite of the backlash. Turkey's a long way from being a Western European secular democracy, but its even a longer way from being Saudi Arabia or even Kuwait.
"I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin
Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
Actually, if the billion muslims decided to become atheists I would prefer it too, whatever that improves the human rights situation in their countries would be fine for me
And what if they still hate us? Can you imagine eager terrorist martyrs who can't wait for the heavenly reward of rotting in the ground? NOTHING could stop those guys!
Originally posted by BeBro
Yes, he's a dictator without doubt. I'm just wondering if his pro-western/anti-islamist POV is of the usual "I'm allying with western forces and crush any inner opposition to keep my seat" dictator ****, or if he does indeed want to modernize his country (if we agree with his methods is of course another thing).
Ben Ali has been consistent about modernizing his country (except the democratic process, obviously) since he took over. In particular, services and industry have considerably gained in strength under his rule - for example, it used to produce many clothes until a few years ago, and the complete end of protected trade between Europe and Africa. And there is a very important tourism industry there.
From what little I know of Tunisia, it seems the people there are much less traditional than most Arab Muslims, both those in the Middle East, and those in North Africa (who are relatively liberal in comparison). For example, it is the Arabic country where sexual liberation seems the more advanced.
After seeing what happened in Algeria, where the Islamists and the Government engaged in a bloody civil war, after the government denied the Islamists their victory in the 1991 elections, Ben Ali chose to fight against Islamists by restricting Islam. He still sticks to this strategy unlike Baathists.
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
Originally posted by mrmitchell
And what if they still hate us?
Well, they'd be stronger because they'd be less likely to kill each other for sectarian reasons
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
How is this action dictatorial behavior when it is practiced within the EU (I'm looking at you Spiff!)?
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
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