The God Delusion

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by GePap
Also, I doubt Buddhists, Hindus, and anyone who does not follow a monotheistic religion accepted creationism prior to Darwin, or since.

Can Monotheist please stop ignoring non-monotheistic religious beliefs, please? Its rather disingeneous in this type of debate.

"Do as you would be done by"

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Terra Nullius

Ri-i-i-ight,..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo

Augustine took the view that the Biblical text should not be interpreted literally if it contradicts what we know from science and our God-given reason. In an important passage on his "The Literal Interpretation of Genesis" (early 5th century, AD), St. Augustine wrote:

It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are.

So what you're saying is that even back in the 5th century AD they already knew that the 'teachings' of the Bible were a crock of ****...

[Elok]

Well, Whaleboy, does this book honestly strike you as more persuasive than Russell's "Why I am not a Christian?" Because it certainly sounds like it uses many of the same arguments, and that book didn't impress me. When presented with that style of "religion is a sci-fi alien brain-worm that makes you crazy and evil be afraaaaid," anyone who's had an overall positive religious experience is faced with the dilemma of whether to be offended or amused, or perhaps just bored depending on how many times s/he has encountered it before.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by GePap
Also, I doubt Buddhists, Hindus, and anyone who does not follow a monotheistic religion accepted creationism prior to Darwin, or since.

Can Monotheist please stop ignoring non-monotheistic religious beliefs, please? Its rather disingeneous in this type of debate.

Atheists should do the same. In fact, they seem to attack only a subset of monotheism.

Now, I admit not to know, but what explanation did Buddhists have for the creatures and plants in the world before Darwin?

And I am not refering to purely monotheism, all polytheism religions I have heard about (including Hinduism) have been creationist.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


"Do as you would be done by"

Once more, it was you, Whaleboy, and Dawkins who are addressing a certain subset of monotheists.

JM

[Elok]

Sorry, Mobius, but your argument just isn't convincing me. You need more smileys to reinforce your points. You can't argue with emoticons, as everyone knows.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


How could they be fools if they were right after all!!?????

Umm, if someone from the 8th century had said that distance contracted and time dilated for higher relative motion, while saying that they came at this through logic and reason, I would call them fools.

They wouldn't have any logical reason to think this (Despite the fact that they would have turned out right).. similiarly for atheists in the 18th century.

Occasionally even fools are right (and there is no evidence that atheism is correct nor even any suggested experiments which could provide some evidence).

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Who's side are you on JM, that comment is just making things easy for us!

"We can't explain why the sun rises - er, let's make something up!"

Exactly. Religion is borne from the ignorance of early man who knew nothing about how the world worked on a scientific level, hence gods for this, and gods for that, etc...

As we came to understand our world better, all the 'supernatural' stuff was explained. QED.

But Christianity is not like this. Nor, I think, is Buddhism.

JM

[Terra Nullius]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Now, I admit not to know, but what explanation did Buddhists have for the creatures and plants in the world before Darwin?
JM

Hmmm,.. buddhist cosmology in 30 seonds or less.

In the beginning there was void. Spontaneously out of the void developped the extremely subtle consciousness which is without ego.

From this condensed the subtle consciousness of all sentient beings. By this time, the karmic (possibilities?) of all sentient beings was already determined.

As the universe further condensed, gross matter came into being out of subtle (non-physical) matter. Air condensed into liquid into solid matter.

Ummm,.. as the karma of the sentient beings unfolded they took form in all the varieties of creatures we see today.

Note that plants are not considered sentient beings.

Buddhists also have a very ancient and rudimentary form of atomism.

From memory: The Universe in a Single Atom - HHDL

[CrONoS]

@Terra Nolius
i wasn't knowing that buddhism was having this idea of creation!
Matter being condensed from a more subtle matter; is very common in many kind esoterism.

In christian and jewish esoterism and mysticism, it seems to have the same idea. Of the condensation of the Spirit into physical matter.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Atheists should do the same. In fact, they seem to attack only a subset of monotheism.

What are you talking about? They certainly are attacking all types of MOnotheism. Can you point to anything writen here that would indicate the attacks is not on Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, or any other monotheistic religion, only Christianity, as you appear to claim?

Now, I admit not to know, but what explanation did Buddhists have for the creatures and plants in the world before Darwin?

I do not pretend to comprehend Buddhist cosmology. A link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology

And I am not refering to purely monotheism, all polytheism religions I have heard about (including Hinduism) have been creationist.

JM

Creatinost in what sense? The Greeks had a very varied set of cosmologies, many of which had the very earth as one of the primordial deities herself.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Umm, if someone from the 8th century had said that distance contracted and time dilated for higher relative motion, while saying that they came at this through logic and reason, I would call them fools.

They wouldn't have any logical reason to think this (Despite the fact that they would have turned out right).. similiarly for atheists in the 18th century.

And at the time you would have had no logical reason to explain theism either. Making your position as well grounded in logic as that of that "fool."

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by GePap


What are you talking about? They certainly are attacking all types of MOnotheism. Can you point to anything writen here that would indicate the attacks is not on Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, or any other monotheistic religion, only Christianity, as you appear to claim?

Creatinost in what sense? The Greeks had a very varied set of cosmologies, many of which had the very earth as one of the primordial deities herself.

I would call that creationist..

If you had read my earlier posts, you would know I am refering to subset that is creationist, not the subset that is Christian.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by GePap


And at the time you would have had no logical reason to explain theism either. Making your position as well grounded in logic as that of that "fool."

But the atheists claimed to be more logical. And if there is no natural explanation for something, then a supernatural one is quite logical.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Terra Nullius

Hmmm,.. buddhist cosmology in 30 seonds or less.

In the beginning there was void. Spontaneously out of the void developped the extremely subtle consciousness which is without ego.

From this condensed the subtle consciousness of all sentient beings. By this time, the karmic (possibilities?) of all sentient beings was already determined.

As the universe further condensed, gross matter came into being out of subtle (non-physical) matter. Air condensed into liquid into solid matter.

Ummm,.. as the karma of the sentient beings unfolded they took form in all the varieties of creatures we see today.

Note that plants are not considered sentient beings.

Buddhists also have a very ancient and rudimentary form of atomism.

From memory: The Universe in a Single Atom - HHDL

Still has the natural world coming out of the supernatural. So in some sense it is creationist.

JM