It seems like the Dems will be taking both houses of Congress.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe



Why? When Christians talk about giving to the poor and ministries they understand that these are matters of individual faith and individual minisitries according to the whims of free will.

Why would compulsion by force of state be in keeping with christian values when that invalidates free will?

You are right, for the giver. Being forced to give doesn't help him/her at all.

For the poor person, however, the help is needed. He/She benefits no matter what the source.

The state doesn't take all your money. You still have most of it to do with what you will, and many Christians give more (from their free will) beyond that that they give in taxes.

So you still have the option to give freely. And the poor and misfortuned get somewhat provided for.

JM

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Oerdin


The reason is the patch work private charities never do a good job of reaching everyone who is in need. Only government programs like Social Security can fill the gap and really make a difference.

You know it, I know it. And if Christians really want to fulfill Christian values of helping the poor then they need to acknowledge that fact too.

Nope. Christians believe as much in free will and the worth of the individual to make those decisions. Each of us must make our own way with the Lord. Mandating others do so by force of arms is not a Christian like thing to do.

[Arrian]

There seem to be plenty of Christians who aren't particularly interested in free will.

-Arrian

[Jon Miller]

It has nothing to do with the giver. This has to do with the receiver. People still have plenty of money (Generally) to give more and to make decisions for the Lord in that way.

This has to do with the receiver.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Arrian
There seem to be plenty of Christians who aren't particularly interested in free will.

-Arrian

Yeah, I was going to mention that. But decided that that woudl start a conversation which would need it's own thread.

JM

[Arrian]

And honestly, I don't want to go down that road either.

I guess the key point wrt to the current debate is that there is variety amongst Christian modes of thought and I could certainly see a sort of Christian socialism being embraced w/o Free Will causing too much trouble. Some Christians would run into that straightaway (Ogie) and that would be the end of it. Others, however, might not.

-Arrian

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Arrian
There seem to be plenty of Christians who aren't particularly interested in free will.

-Arrian

Some don't even believe in it (like those who believe in predestination).

[Arrian]

Ugh, what a concept that is.

-Arrian

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Arrian
There seem to be plenty of Christians who aren't particularly interested in free will.

-Arrian

Yeah well they're twits.

Freedom

[Drake Tungsten]

YES!!! MORE PLEASE!!!

Some big name Democrats want to oust DNC Chairman Howard Dean, arguing that his stubborn commitment to the 50-state strategy and his stinginess with funds for House races cost the Democrats several pickup opportunities.

The candidate being floated to replace Dean? Harold Ford.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=56467

First, the nutroots hint that they want to get rid of Emmanuel. Now the establishment Dems are hinting that they want to get rid of Dean? Jesus, at this rate the Democratic party is going to tear itself apart before they even take control of Congress...

[Odin]

Morons. Dean's 50-state strategy is what helped the Dems to win. The DLC gasbags are corporate shrills, they fear the Netroots because they fear people having real power.

[Dinner]

We'll see if it happens. Most of the noise on places like slate.com and the editorial sections of various papers has been very pro-Dean since Dean was the guy who faught hard for a 50 state Democratic Party when some of the party insiders just wanted to fall back into the old strongholds and not challenge Republicans in their strongholds.

I think this last election proved that the 50 state strategy was the winning strategy while the idea of retreating into safe districts is one which can never lead to a majority. If things didn't go well this election then Dean would have been out but for now he gets most of the credit for this win. Especially since it was his idea to borrow $5 million to keep attacking Republicans in their safe districts which resulted in several more lost seats for the Republicans.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Odin
Morons. Dean's 50-state strategy is what helped the Dems to win. The DLC gasbags are corporate shrills, they fear the Netroots because they fear people having real power.

How is it you are blaming the DLC for one article which hasn't come to anything yet?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Odin
Morons. Dean's 50-state strategy is what helped the Dems to win. The DLC gasbags are corporate shrills, they fear the Netroots because they fear people having real power.

I too, think the Democrats who want to oust Dean seriously depreciate his contributions to the recent party victories.

[Spiffor]

Dean

At least, there seems to be one Democrat wth balls. Too bad the Democratic base was wimpy enough to choose the "safe" candidate in his stead