600,000 killed by Bush's war in Iraq

[SlowwHand]

DAMN, sawbones!

[Dr Strangelove]

Really each victim of violent death in Iraq should be questioned individually. Only then will we know for sure.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Right, the only way to make this meaningful is to compare it to the Saddam death rate.

Even non-violent deaths can be attributed to the invasion. Destruction in infrastructure undoutably has caused the quality of medical care to call, the rise in unemployment has surely caused some people to starve, etc.

Can anyone find mortality statistics for Iraq pre-invasion?

What time span would you compare?

The death rate of the four years prior to the invasion? The death rate during the beginning of the Iran-Iraq war, or the death rate from 1988 to 1992 (The anfal campaign, end of Iran-Iraq war, first gulf war, crushing of Shiite uprising)?

I think the real problem here is the unwillingness of the US government and the inability of the Iraqi government to come up with their own accurate statistics on the issue. If there is no one actually counting, then all we have are studies to try to come up with a number.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


Instead of spuriously putting words into my mouth, why not at least prove it by finding the post where I said that - that, my dear boy, is why we have a search function...

IIRC my predictions were about coalition losses and cost in US$ - both of which have actually turned out to be underestimates... But don't let that get in the way of your smear campaign...

You should know the search function doesn't work worth a damn for the archive; in fact according to the results you haven't posted here once in your life. All I know is you started a troll thread a few years back with a UN report claiming approximately a million civilians would die in the war and its aftermath. If your memory fails you so be it, no skin off my back.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Tingkai


According to the study, published in the Lancet, the study found 654,965 deaths since the invasion. Of these deaths, 601,027 were due to violence.

http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/im...3606694919.pdf

So roughly 50,000 people die of all non-violence related causes in three years in a country of how many million? They must have natural lifespans of close to a thousand years. Looks like somebody needed to prune the herd.

[SlowwHand]

Start at ACS.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by dannubis
yes using american poison gas

Bull****. There were never any transfers of CW agents to the Iraqi government. Saddam was able to buy precursor ingredients (hell, I can do that, legally), and equipment to make the stuff, load it, and handle it (that was done pretty poorly, and most of the above wasn't US made or paid).

We did apparently look the other way when he used it on Iranian troops and we provided BDA's and other intel that improved the efficiency of Saddam's air strikes, but we didn't get into the "details" of what ordnance Saddam dropped.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Well, you know, sometimes you get so mad at the great Satan but he just doesn't oblige you by being in your neighborhood. You get so frustrated that you just want to beat the little woman to death, then something happens and Snap! Has that ever happened to you? Yeah, me too.

Or maybe you lose your job, then you lose your kids to sectarian violence, and one day you snap. You can't claim that the US actions haven't increased stress and tension in ways that might lead to more violence indirectly as well.

That being said, the only way to compare is to figure out pre-invasion mortality rates and compare.

I think the real problem here is the unwillingness of the US government and the inability of the Iraqi government to come up with their own accurate statistics on the issue. If there is no one actually counting, then all we have are studies to try to come up with a number.

You'd want to compare it to the 2002 death rate, and possibly the trend.

600,000 in what 2.5 years? About 240k per year, to a population of 28.8 million, so an annual death rate of: .8333%.

This study has clearly undercounted the number of people who've died in Iraq since 2003

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


So roughly 50,000 people die of all non-violence related causes in three years in a country of how many million? They must have natural lifespans of close to a thousand years. Looks like somebody needed to prune the herd.

If you read the actual article, you'll notice that the 650k is "excess Iraqi deaths as consequence of the war", of which 50k are non-violence related.

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The 600,000 figure is vastly overstated. They're essentially blaming every death that has occured in Iraq on the US including people who die in car accidents, natural causes, and falling down wells.

Likely they padded the numbers still further just to make it a nice round number. In short it smells like BS.

The famed argument of because you say so?

[RGBVideo]

no, the famed argument of:

They're essentially blaming every death that has occured in Iraq on the US including people who die in car accidents, natural causes, and falling down wells.

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by VJ
no, the famed argument of:

Could I have a cite on that being anything else except blowhard bull****?

[Dinner]

According to NPR the Pentigon puts the number at 50,000 and that is total dead due to military conflict between the Coalition and both the Iraqi Army (during the original invasion) and all insurgent activity. Of that 50,000 many, if not most, were killed by insurgents. The Pentigon spokesman called the 600,000 and 650,000 figures totally without merit. That sounds like a very charitable way to put it.

[Jaakko]

I thought Pentagon didn't do bodycounts. How did the Pentagon arrive at its numbers? Is it the same that is at Iraqbodycount.org that only list deaths that have been successfully reported and verified, and as such obviously nowhere near the actual number?

[Dr Strangelove]

My guess is that at steady state Iraq would be expected to have a natural death rate of about 300,000 per year.