600,000 killed by Bush's war in Iraq

[Darius871]

Originally posted by MOBIUS

Stupid figures like this give those against the invasion a bad name.

Weren't you the one who said 1 million would die?

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Arrian


If you pull those out, what's the number? Surely that shouldn't be so hard...

-Arrian

and pull out terrorist bombings.

[Arrian]

Yes and no, Sloww. Surely the US bears some responsibility for those. They are one of the outcomes of the invasion. We're not doing the bombing in those cases, clearly, and most of the blame goes to those who are. But the invasion and subsequent (bungled) occupation paved the way for the terrorist/sectarian violence.

-Arrian

[Proteus_MST]

Yep,
that´s why it its better to take the total numbers of violent deaths p.a. (or, like here, for 3 years) post invasion and compare it to the same numbers pre invasion, as this determnines the chances of an inhabitant of getting violently killed.
If the numbers are higher pre invasion it looks like the situation in this field has changed for better for the inhabitants of Iraq, if the numbers are higher post invasion, the situation has worsened.
Someone violently killed doesn´t ask anymore if Saddam is responsible for his death, any terrorists, or the US soldiers

(it might also be wise to calculate trends, so as to see wether the numbers might stabilize on a higher or lower level than pre invasion)

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Darius871
Weren't you the one who said 1 million would die?

Instead of spuriously putting words into my mouth, why not at least prove it by finding the post where I said that - that, my dear boy, is why we have a search function...

IIRC my predictions were about coalition losses and cost in US$ - both of which have actually turned out to be underestimates... But don't let that get in the way of your smear campaign...

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Arrian
Yes and no, Sloww. Surely the US bears some responsibility for those. They are one of the outcomes of the invasion. We're not doing the bombing in those cases, clearly, and most of the blame goes to those who are. But the invasion and subsequent (bungled) occupation paved the way for the terrorist/sectarian violence.

-Arrian

Why keep it? The killing was going on before the USA was there.

See Kurds.

[dannubis]

yes using american poison gas

and it didn't stop after you came.

the fact remains, your dear leader brought freedom to iraq

and the iraqi john doe dies.

[Arrian]

yes using american poison gas

Genuine curiosity: has this been documented?

...

Aside from that, it doesn't take a (in this case, badly flawed IMO) statistical study of violence in Iraq to know that the place is a mess. A mess that we have contibuted to.

-Arrian

[dannubis]

US, french germans. All of them sold nasty stuff to Sadam.

The point ?

If he chooses to stay blind for the obvious, why can't I poke at our very own texan poster once in a while ?

My two cents ?

The place would have gone to hell one time or another anyway, so the US is not the blame for the root of the problem. However, the current situation is of your dear leaders making.

[Arrian]

Agreed on that last part.

-Arrian

[Chemical Ollie]

Did anyone see Bush's reply to the reporter questioning him on this report? He said something like: "The Iraqis clearly love freedom, as they can withstand all this violence."

[Victor Galis]

Right, the only way to make this meaningful is to compare it to the Saddam death rate.

Even non-violent deaths can be attributed to the invasion. Destruction in infrastructure undoutably has caused the quality of medical care to call, the rise in unemployment has surely caused some people to starve, etc.

Can anyone find mortality statistics for Iraq pre-invasion?

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
It's impossible to determine which deaths are attributable to US action.

Bingo.

[Dinner]

The 600,000 figure is vastly overstated. They're essentially blaming every death that has occured in Iraq on the US including people who die in car accidents, natural causes, and falling down wells.

Likely they padded the numbers still further just to make it a nice round number. In short it smells like BS.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Tingkai
I think the military spin doctors were working hard when they suggested that the inclusion of domestic violence somehow distorts the numbers. These deaths would likely be statistically insignificant.

Well, you know, sometimes you get so mad at the great Satan but he just doesn't oblige you by being in your neighborhood. You get so frustrated that you just want to beat the little woman to death, then something happens and Snap! Has that ever happened to you? Yeah, me too.