Islam Unacceptable.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Heresson
I don't think Iraq was attacked for religious reasons. At least not officially.

"At least not officially..."

Well, considering all the 'official' reasons were a crock - we have to start looking at the unofficial reasons...

Christians are dieing in Iraq, Palestine and especially in Lebanon, as well.

Not as many as muslims, so think of it as 'collateral damage'. And besides, they're all brown-skinned Arab ones anyway - I doubt whiteys like Bush et al really care about dark-skinned christians dying...

And it's not only flag-burning

No, but then the US support for Israel has been going on for a long time now, so you can imagine they'll try other tactics - like crashing planes into buildings for example...

People in the west seem to forget that there is cause and effect - there wouldn't be so much islamic extremism if certain countries of the west weren't shafting the middle east as a whole...

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs


This is an example of the degree to which one enforces containment. Would such individuals face expulsion from the UK for example? Given the frightening Bush administration policy of ghosting prisoners and that "extraordinary rendition" malarky, I can easily see extremists being picked up and finding themselves exiled overnight.

Dunno about the current praxis in the UK, but in Ger this is demanded (and to some extent done) for those which are here under political asylum or other temporary rules which allow them to stay without being citizens. Because the idea is that these privileges are given only as long they are not abused (for blowing up stuff for example).

But of course it's another matter for those which already have been granted citizenship, you can't expel your own citizens.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by MOBIUS

Well, considering all the 'official' reasons were a crock - we have to start looking at the unofficial reasons...

I know one of the reasons was help for Israel, and help for israel is partially due to some idiotic protestant fundies, but still, it was not in the name of religion.

Not as many as muslims, so think of it as 'collateral damage'. And besides, they're all brown-skinned Arab ones anyway - I doubt whiteys like Bush et al really care about dark-skinned christians dying...

Actually, as muslim anger rises against christians, they suffer more than muslims and their communities, shrinking since late XIX century massacre, may not survive it.

No, but then the US support for Israel has been going on for a long time now, so you can imagine they'll try other tactics - like crashing planes into buildings for example...

People in the west seem to forget that there is cause and effect - there wouldn't be so much islamic extremism if certain countries of the west weren't shafting the middle east as a whole...

Oh, I do agree, as You know. But muslims chose the worst options possible, and confirm the world's negative image of themselves.

[Cort Haus]

Most of the contemporary jihadists are actually middle-class westerners raised on the contemporary diet of victim-politics. I don't believe that victim-politics is historically an Islamic thing, I believe it is a degenerate strand of western political though that has been seized upon by Islamists as a tool to use to further their ends.

The debate about the relative violence of Christianity, Islam, and other religions may obscure the key issue in todays situation, which is the idea that if you shout "Help, help, I'm being repressed" as loudly as possible, then you can go on to do anything in the name of 'fighting back'.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by BeBro


Dunno about the current praxis in the UK, but in Ger this is demanded (and to some extent done) for those which are here under political asylum or other temporary rules which allow them to stay without being citizens. Because the idea is that these privileges are given only as long they are not abused (for blowing up stuff for example).

But of course it's another matter for those which already have been granted citizenship, you can't expel your own citizens.

If my impression of international standards is correct, a child born in a particular land generally makes that land by default that child's homeland. It's a principle written into the US Constitution. However, with the latest round of election year scary-brown-people-are-coming-to-get-you fear mongering, some have proposed amending that part of the USC, thereby allowing the expulsion of "native-born" citizens.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
No, but then the US support for Israel has been going on for a long time now, so you can imagine they'll try other tactics - like crashing planes into buildings for example...

People in the west seem to forget that there is cause and effect - there wouldn't be so much Islamic extremism if certain countries of the west weren't shafting the middle east as a whole...

This post demonstrates my point. Here we have a non-Muslim appearing to understand the Islamist mass-murder as being a consequence of Western actions. He sees Muslims as victims who must inevitably resort to nihilistic slaughter as if this was a natural, inevitable and completely understandable thing to do. Newspapers like The Guardian are full of writers endorsing this viewpoint (esp Madeleine Bunting).

If you listen to the rantings of the 7/7 leader on the video, he's basically just spouting a load of Socialist-Worker-Party type rhetoric about victimhood, whilst arrogantly taking ownership of the 'ummah' by referring to "my people". This isn't a guy from the dusty back streets of Lahore or Ramallah, he's a product of contemporary western political thought.

People in the west seem to forget also that the mobilisation of Jihadism as a international force was started by Western governments, first in Afghanistan, then in the Balkans. In those cases, the Jihadists got support from the west against the enemies of the USSR and Serbia respectively.

The latter campaign was accompanied by a propaganda barrage of Goebbels-esque proportions, painting the Muslim sides as hapless victims of Serbian aggression. Apart from being a grotesque simplification of the complexities of the conflicts, this promoted a near-hysterical victim-complex. The same applies in the ME, where Israel, like Serbia, is depicted as something nasty which basically has no right to exist, and the historical complexities of the conflicts are ignored in favour of a dumbed-down Manichaean morality-tale, with Muslims as designated victims.

It never ceases to amaze me how radical Muslims and their numerous western apologists get apoplectic about deaths of Muslims by non-Muslims, but are completely unmoved by deaths of Muslims at the hands of other Muslims (Iraq, Darfur etc).

[Dis]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
ALL religion is stupid crap...

But I find the idiotic hypocrisy of christians condemning islam in this way the most entertaining thing I have yet read today (it is still early)...

You ***** are priceless!

we aren't christians *******. Take that back.

[Dis]

This is just too much, suggesting we attacked Iraq for religious reasons.

The left gets even loonier.

We attacked Iraq for the oil, and to prop up big corporations like Haliburton. We didn't attack them for religious reasons.

[Barnabas]

What will they do once a good replacement for oil is found, and their major exports become rugs and dates ?

Finding a good replacement for oil may be the best way to fight terrorism

[SlowwHand]

Cort, meet Mobius. Resident dumbass.

[atawa]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
It never ceases to amaze me how radical Muslims and their numerous western apologists get apoplectic about deaths of Muslims by non-Muslims, but are completely unmoved by deaths of Muslims at the hands of other Muslims (Iraq, Darfur etc).

QFT

But of course it's another matter for those which already have been granted citizenship, you can't expel your own citizens.

I see no reason why citizenship couldnt be revoked.

[Herra Gautason]

Go Pope!

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Can we get Pope Zero?

[lord of the mark]

question: When Denmark was under siege about the cartoons, what did the Vatican say?

[SlowwHand]

Vatican cardinal criticizes cartoons satirizing prophet Mohammed

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=18582