Is Jesus Lord?

[CrONoS]

But as a religious,"Edit:" I think you dont have to rest your faith on historical evidence; the symbolic behind the image is what worth. At least for me. "Edit": What is important, is not the wrap around the history, but the bones that are hide inside.

If you read the gospel of John, and you believe in Jesus-Christ because he have change the water into wine... It's important, but this is not the most important things.

What is important is the symbols. I can even say, it's the only things that's worth something. It's hard to explain but you have to find the links between you and the symbols. The symbols needs to be activated, need to do his works into your soul.

You have to be the water, being spiritualised by the Christ. You need to be "full of spirits",(even if the spirits CAN'T be quantified, calculated) you need to be serve as a drink of spirits for your neightboor. Your soul, the water, needs to be resplenigh of the presence of Christ, and the effect of Christ, is to inspire the soul. To transform it from stone to gold. From water to wine.

I dont think there is a coincidence if Jesus used the wines as a symbols; wines was say to give inspiration. The ancient greek were saying that the wine was giving by the gods, when man were separated from the gods.

Originally posted by Empress
Actually, I"ve seen a lot of documentaries lately scientifically proving things from the Bible, even the plagues on the Egyptians by Moses.

[CrONoS]

We also have a tendancy to judge religions born in the ancient world, from standard our scientific point of view. And our lack of poetic, symbolic, religious knowledge.

There is always two side to a religion; one is exoteric and it`s the church of Paul; they are more moralistic, will have laws(specially juridic law; as jews and muslims), will have mass rituals.

The other one it's the esoteric side of the church, usually called the Church of John. More mystics, people who seems to be a part of here are always near the heretics(think of St John of The Cross), have a tendancy to esoterism(Dantes).

If we can see the difference between these two; apart of the use of word; exoteric and esoteric. One give much importance to the litterative interpretation. The other one, are giving much importance into the search of the meaning, the essence. I remember a theologians of the early church saying that we dont have to read the Bible, literraly. But taken it to his meaning; maybe it was Origenes or Gregory of Nicee.

I'm really interested into the very beginnings of the church(from 70 to 300 century). Reading the early church history is very stimulating: Many theologian dispute over the trinity, the nature of Jesus, the God of the old testament.
Many heresy(even if the terms was not so pejorative in this times), anathema was called on many people, who somes were even in the church, who were bishops(even on Origenes, who was a really important figures in the beginning of Christiannity and the Roman Catholics Church)....

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Odin


Yes, and you find it through science.


* Odin runs before he gets lynched by the religious Apolytoners

As a scientist I find that idea to be rediculous.

JM

[Sava]

As a scientist, I must concur.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Elok
And PH, I never forget you're an atheist. But I do sometimes forget you're an irrational smeg, which is why I still talk to you.

Not believing in fairy tales and saying such makes me irrational? Damn, what will you say now I don't believe in the tooth fairy?

[Odin]

Originally posted by Sava
As a scientist,

No you're not.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Catholics also believe three additional things, her assumption, immaculate conception and her sinlessness.

I read that as "and her silliness."

Originally posted by Lorizael
You're forgetting the part of Christianity where, once Jesus shows up, he's the whole point. You're not supposed to just follow rules anymore. You are supposed to follow Jesus.

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I don't think you understand Christianity.

He expresses the concept of the Lordship of Christ better than many Christians. This is the point where most denominations fail by thinking it is their job to rewrite the rules and then judge according to their rules.

Many a skeptic has argued about inconsistencies in what Jesus did and said. There are plenty to be found because Jesus wasn't teaching rules. He was living and teaching obedience to the person of God.

He said outrageous things like, "Unless you eat my flesh, and drink my blood, there is no life in you." Religion goes and tries to make flesh-eating and blood-drinking doctrine, and liturgy, and ceremony.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


Just being Catholic doesn't necessarily mean anything. I've probably learned more about my faith from Wikipedia than from 25 years of going to church, heh.

Indeed. Until I read the Wikipedia article I had never known that Leo "The Space Pope" VI was actually the inspiration for Will Smith's character in Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

[Robert]

Christianity can be teached within 30 minutes I think.
The rest is commentary, if I may quote Lord of the Marks Rabbi

I think it should be able to teach christianity in 5 minutes. If it takes more then the faith can't be token seriously. If one needs to study for years to know how to be saved then only the smart ones can be saved.

Explanation of christianity as short as possible:
- The world is a mess because mankind is not able to make the right decisions between good and evil and oftenly messes things up
- Therefor mankind was heading towards the wrong end of the tunnel.
- Since God loves mankind he came down to earth to become man and to show how to seperate good from evil and live the perfect life (Jesus)
- Since God hates sin, for it destroyes good, he hated Jesus when he took all sins on him.
- Now everyone who admits that he's not able to seperate good from evil and that he's corrupting good but trusts God through Jesus to save him from the death end of the tunnel will be saved.
- If you trust yourself upon God he'll change you and he'll lead you in this life.

That's like 5 minutes I think.
Of course a lot of questions can be raised, but like I said: that's all commentary.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Straybow

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Catholics also believe three additional things, her assumption, immaculate conception and her sinlessness.

I read that as "and her silliness."

Originally posted by Lorizael
You're forgetting the part of Christianity where, once Jesus shows up, he's the whole point. You're not supposed to just follow rules anymore. You are supposed to follow Jesus.

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I don't think you understand Christianity.

He expresses the concept of the Lordship of Christ better than many Christians. This is the point where most denominations fail by thinking it is their job to rewrite the rules and then judge according to their rules.

Many a skeptic has argued about inconsistencies in what Jesus did and said. There are plenty to be found because Jesus wasn't teaching rules. He was living and teaching obedience to the person of God.

He said outrageous things like, "Unless you eat my flesh, and drink my blood, there is no life in you." Religion goes and tries to make flesh-eating and blood-drinking doctrine, and liturgy, and ceremony.

Most people saw that I was replying to Quantum_Mechanics

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Christianity can be teached within 30 minutes I think.
The rest is commentary, if I may quote Lord of the Marks Rabbi

I think it should be able to teach christianity in 5 minutes. If it takes more then the faith can't be token seriously. If one needs to study for years to know how to be saved then only the smart ones can be saved.

Explanation of christianity as short as possible:
- The world is a mess because mankind is not able to make the right decisions between good and evil and oftenly messes things up
- Therefor mankind was heading towards the wrong end of the tunnel.
- Since God loves mankind he came down to earth to become man and to show how to seperate good from evil and live the perfect life (Jesus)
- Since God hates sin, for it destroyes good, he hated Jesus when he took all sins on him.
- Now everyone who admits that he's not able to seperate good from evil and that he's corrupting good but trusts God through Jesus to save him from the death end of the tunnel will be saved.
- If you trust yourself upon God he'll change you and he'll lead you in this life.

That's like 5 minutes I think.
Of course a lot of questions can be raised, but like I said: that's all commentary.

That's an explanation of Christianity.. that doesn't tell you what Christianity is... It is also colored by your brand of Christianity, others will disagree.

Jon Millerl

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
It's implied. What do these 'churches' suggest happen to those infernal homosexuals?

Your national church is allied with the Episcopal church in the US, and you know about the controversy regarding our recnet actions concerning gay clergy. Your national church has "covered our back" from attacks by more "conservative" branches, though their support has been somewhat less than enthusiastic.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Not believing in fairy tales and saying such makes me irrational? Damn, what will you say now I don't believe in the tooth fairy?

Oh, being an atheist doesn't make you irrational. The convoluted Bertrand Russell-style Promethean masturbation fantasy you're apparently living in, on the other hand, does. Y'know, the one where all the world's religions are headed by James Bond villains out to brainwash the world and stomp on kittens. And the world's only hope is (surprise!) the forces of Reason and Progress, represented by you and various other whinging skeptics.

[MOBIUS]

Easy. Stop wasting your time believing in the stupid hypocrisies of religion and use your time for something more productive.

The fact that all the Christian spin-off cults believe different stuff despite having the same origins should provide a massive clue to the stupidity of actually believing in organised religion...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MOBIUS

The fact that all the Christian spin-off cults believe different stuff despite having the same origins should provide a massive clue to the stupidity of actually believing in organised religion...

Oh, Judaism is far worse. Not only do different "trends" believe different things, but theres tremendous diversity of belief within groups.

Ive always thought of this as a good thing though.