Is Jesus Lord?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Odin


No you're not.

Yes I am.

[Provost Harrison]

Can you give me some references to some of your research papers then?

[Sava]

Such things aren't a requirement for being a scientist.

[Provost Harrison]

OK

[Provost Harrison]

Hey mate, I am a scientist, and I am trying desperately to be anything other!

[CrONoS]

poor Mobius, your incomprehension(or lack of perspective) of the religious experience is sadening me.

Saint John of the Cross

On a dark night, Kindled in love with yearnings -- oh, happy chance! -- I went forth without being observed, My house being now at rest.

In darkness and secure, By the secret ladder, disguised -- oh, happy chance! --
In darkness and in concealment, My house being now at rest.

In the happy night, In secret, when none saw me,
Nor I beheld aught, Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart.

This light guided me More surely than the light of noonday,
To the place where he (well I knew who!) was awaiting me -- A place where none appeared.

Oh, night that guided me, Oh, night more lovely than the dawn,
Oh, night that joined Beloved with lover, Lover transformed in the Beloved!

Upon my flowery breast, Kept wholly for himself alone,
There he stayed sleeping, and I caressed him, And the fanning of the cedars made a breeze.

The breeze blew from the turret As I parted his locks;
With his gentle hand he wounded my neck And caused all my senses to be suspended.

I remained, lost in oblivion; My face I reclined on the Beloved.
All ceased and I abandoned myself, Leaving my cares forgotten among the lilies.

[beingofone]

A heckler in the crowd shouted out, "My mind is not made like that, I can't be bothered with philosophy."

"Why do you bother to live," Diogenes retorted, "if you can't be bothered to live properly?"





A soldier named Nobushige came to Hakuin, and asked: "Is there really a paradise and a hell?"

"Who are you?" inquired Hakuin.

"I am a samurai," the warrior replied.

"You, a soldier!" exclaimed Hakuin. "What kind of ruler would have you as his guard? Your face looks like that of a beggar."

Nobushige became so angry that he began to draw his sword, but Hakuin continued: "So you have a sword! Your weapon is probably much too dull to cut off my head."

As Nobushige drew his sword Hakuin remarked: "Here open the gates of hell!"

At these words the samurai, perceiving the master's discipline, sheathed his sword and bowed.

"Here open the gates of paradise," said Hakuin.

[beingofone]

A true skeptic demands evidence.

A false skeptic ignores evidence.

[CrONoS]

@Mobius
I will be agreeing with you only on one thing:

The religious experience in himself is highly heretics.

As I see it, how can the Thruth be put into law, juridiction. As soon, as the spirits have been put into law, and you only listen to the law... You face spiritual death.

But at the same time, The Catholic Church, have a purpose, is to create a dogma, to keep people, who are sharing the same faith together and to protect them from idolatry.

There is too few people that have the intellectual force to fight against the seduction of the modern world. The Church is here, as a mother, to protect and help develloping the younger minds(in their spiritual journey). I know that it's not the position of the church, and to many catholics, it seems that taking part in the institution is more important than the spirit(the meaning of christiannity) himself.

There is a great awakening in the Catholic church about it; many bishop, laic, and priest are waiting about the revival of the christiannity throught action.(Even if I think if religion must be based on comptemplation of the Thruth)

As for myself; I came to the Roman Catholic Church from a great u-turn, I came from Nietzsche(yep), the process was in work, unconsciously, in the darkness, and finally one day I find myself in a christian church. And from this time; it has been my mother.(In his psychological sense).

Since I know that I am too weak, to be alone to fight against the seduction of the "rational" modern world.(utopian pregressism, raw materialism, sentimentalism, romantism, moral conservatism, rationalism, spiritualism, liberalism, etc...). The church have been here to a guide for me, in time of darkness.

There is many side to a religion.

I need to add that the religious experience is always a little bit heretic.

Many mystics of the Catholics Church have been faced with judgment of heresy from the Roman Church. (Master Eckhart, St John Of The Cross) even St- Thomas d'Aquin have been faced with heresy declared from the institution of the church. But this is the gold of the Church, leading each individuals toward the comptemplation of the face of God. If you are able to support his beauty.

" 28. Now I occupy my soul
and all my energy in his service;
I no longer tend the herd,
nor have I any other work
now that my every act is love.

29. If, then, I am no longer
seen or found on the common,
you will say that I am lost;
that, stricken by love,
I lost myself, and was found. "

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by cronos_qc
poor Mobius, your incomprehension(or lack of perspective) of the religious experience is sadening me.

Saint John of the Cross

Don't you get it? This is what is annoying...you just cannot think beyond your own little box. Learn to realise that there are people out there who do not, and do not want to, believe what you believe...

[Sava]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Hey mate, I am a scientist, and I am trying desperately to be anything other!

My original remark was in jest, but being a scientist has nothing to do with one's profession. It's about one's wealth of knowledge, one's pursuit of knowledge, and the methods used in that pursuit.

I am by no means an expert in any field. But I have advanced knowledge in many fields of science. And I am currently pursuing an academic career in the sciences (I thought I had decided on psychology, but now I'm seriously considering medical school).

Though I may not work as a scientist in any formal capacity, it is certainly reasonable to consider myself a scientist.

Many have a pompous attitude about knowledge (science in particular). I find this ironic because this attitude often comes from the most ignorant of individuals.

/threadjack

[CrONoS]

Idont give a damn about what you believe(or what Mobius ir believing); but Mobius stated that Religion and the religious experience was only a will of power. And that is really... naive. Consider that I was not responding to you or anything that you stated in this thread.

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


Don't you get it? This is what is annoying...you just cannot think beyond your own little box. Learn to realise that there are people out there who do not, and do not want to, believe what you believe...

[Sava]

It is horribly ignorant to try an sum up what religion or what "the religious experience" is. Belief is a very complicated and personal thing. It is not the same for everyone and cannot be explained by a generalization.

[CrONoS]

@Sava
yep, but I have some toughts on the subject (that's why in my post, I've said: I think that,) and didn't wanted to let Mobius stated that they are only one side of religion and the religious experience. I wanted to share some nuance. .

[Odin]

Originally posted by Sava
Such things aren't a requirement for being a scientist.