Where Have the Hurricanes Gone?

[Odin]

Berz, temperature inversions resulting from the subtropical high have NOTHING to do with LATITUDINAL temperature gradients. You are totally misunderstanding the stuff you quoted, All you posted is the fact that high pressure areas in the right places inhibit hurricane development.

[Odin]

This image will help explain things more clearly:



The blue areas shows where air is rising, the red areas show where air is sinking. Note the areas of sinking air centered near the Azores, that is the Atlantic Subtropical High. As long as that high says where it is Atlantic hurricanes can form normally. Sometimes it moves to be over Bermuda, inhibiting hurricane development, that has nothing to do with temperature contrasts.

[Berzerker]

Berz, temperature inversions resulting from the subtropical high have NOTHING to do with LATITUDINAL temperature gradients. You are totally misunderstanding the stuff you quoted, All you posted is the fact that high pressure areas in the right places inhibit hurricane development.

According to Nasa there is a a semi-permanent inversion around the 20th latitude that may inhibit hurricanes depending on the strength of the inversion. Why? Because the inversion results in warmer air up high where hurricanes are fueled by cooler air - thats at least 2 possible gradients facing hurricanes, one more extreme than the other. The more extreme gradient, cool air mass above or in front of the hurricane, results in stronger and/or more frequent hurricanes. If the air mass is warm (inversion), the hurricane loses strength because the gradient, or change in temperature is smaller. Assuming Nasa is right, that means one of us doesn't understand what Nasa means. Since you haven't even addressed the article, I cant take your claims about my ignorance seriously. And dont try to change my argument with LATITUDINAL gradients, that was Nasa's example. Hell Odin, a hurricane cant even form without a temperature gradient and you're telling me temperature contrasts aren't involved with hurricanes?

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Berzerker
I was educated in liberal California, and dont look now but I'll bet Kansas' schools are kicking their ass. I've seen some really stupid rebuttals but citing a geographic location and the actions of some politicians as your proof is about the dumbest yet. Nah, thats an overstatement...

the point was and is that you fit the stereotype of an idiot from Kansas who thinks science = opinions perfectly. every post of yours is like a gigantic troll, with basic stuff so wrongly understood it's hilarious and disturbing at the same time

summary: you're trying so hard to sound smart & scientific that you have no idea what the **** you're talking about

[Sava]

This is a great thread.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by VJ
summary: you're trying so hard to sound smart & scientific that you have no idea what the **** you're talking about

QFT

BTW, Berz, you're trying to pull a bait and switch. High level temperate differentials have nothing to do with latitude. Yes, ahurricane is basically a giant vortex moving war moist air up and colder air down, but the temperatue of the northern oceans has nothing to do with that. The temperature of tropical oceans is what's important, and the water in the Atlantic isn't as hot this year, for whatever reason.

In the Pacific, however, they've been having a number of hurricanes. Hell, even Alaska got hit. We're only slighly over halfway through hurricane season and the Eastern Pacific is up to Hurricane John. Generally those hurricanes pose little danger to land, however, so no one's really paying attention in the media.

But the worst two months in the Atantic season are Sept. and Oct., so I'm not counting my chickens, even if I am starting to relax a little bit.

[Berzerker]

VJ

the point was and is that you fit the stereotype of an idiot from Kansas who thinks science = opinions perfectly. every post of yours is like a gigantic troll, with basic stuff so wrongly understood it's hilarious and disturbing at the same time

summary: you're trying so hard to sound smart & scientific that you have no idea what the **** you're talking about

What basic stuff have I got wrong? I dont see you posting anything about "basic stuff", so your massive intellect came up with bigoted ad hominems instead?

chegitz

BTW, Berz, you're trying to pull a bait and switch. High level temperate differentials have nothing to do with latitude.

I never said it did. Temperature differentials are involved with hurricanes. Is that why you quoted the bigot instead of me?

Yes, ahurricane is basically a giant vortex moving war moist air up and colder air down, but the temperatue of the northern oceans has nothing to do with that. The temperature of tropical oceans is what's important, and the water in the Atlantic isn't as hot this year, for whatever reason.

What happens when the colder air above aint so cold? The hurricane doesn't form or disintegrates. The hurricane needs a relatively large temperature gradient. Did you read the Nasa article I posted? It explains how a heat inversion around the 20th latitude can inhibit hurricanes because it warms the air above or in the path of the hurricane. When this inversion decreases in strength the hurricane is fueled by the increase in cooler air.

"Even when the conditions are ripe for hurricane formation at the surface, the storm may not form if the atmospheric conditions aloft (5-10 km above the surface) are not favorable. For example, around the area of 20° latitude, the air aloft is often sinking, due to the presence of the sub-tropical high—a semi-permanent high pressure system in the subtropical regions that facilitates sinking air motions (subsidence). The sinking air warms and creates a temperature inversion (an extremely stable air layer in which temperature increases with altitude, the inverse of the usual temperature profile in the lower atmosphere) known as the trade wind inversion. This warm layer is very stable, making it difficult for air currents to rise and form thunderstorms and (eventually) hurricanes."

It would be nice if y'all read that before responding.

[chequita guevara]

I did, but your first posting spouted some nonesense about lattitudinal temperature gradients, which is why everyone's been like, what the hell are you talking about.

[TCO]

Oceans over last 2 years have lost substantial heat content.

[Odin]

Originally posted by VJ

summary: you're trying so hard to sound smart & scientific that you have no idea what the **** you're talking about

He also has a bad habit of believing every crazy hypothesis that pops up. I bet he gets his history from that Hancock guy who thinks there was a civilization around 10,000 years ago.

[Odin]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I did, but your first posting spouted some nonesense about lattitudinal temperature gradients, which is why everyone's been like, what the hell are you talking about.

[Empress]

I don't know where all the hurricane's are this year.. but I'm glad they are staying away! (so far )

We still don't have the house fixed completly from Rita, though we did get the house reroofed last month.

[Berzerker]

I did, but your first posting spouted some nonesense about lattitudinal temperature gradients, which is why everyone's been like, what the hell are you talking about.

You and Odin aint everyone, and I didn't mention latitudinal temperature gradients, the Nasa artcle you claim to have read mentions the 20th latitude as home to an inversion. Odin also mentioned latitudinal gradients, not me.

He also has a bad habit of believing every crazy hypothesis that pops up. I bet he gets his history from that Hancock guy who thinks there was a civilization around 10,000 years ago.

I believe the possibility exists, but you're changing the subject. Why is that? Oh yeah, because you pwned yourself by claiming temperature contrasts have nothing to do with hurricanes when in fact they are essential to both their formation and lifespan. Mr Environmentalist here is as informed about the environment as AlGore

[Odin]

Originally posted by Berzerker

I didn't mention latitudinal temperature gradients

O RLY...

Originally posted by Berzerker

I dont buy this argument global warming results in more storms and strongers storms, it seems logical the worst storms and most activity would occur during ice advances because there is a greater contrast between the higher latitudes and the equatorial region. We have 2 tornado seasons but the spring season is by far the worst. Thats because the north is still producing cold dry air and sending it down the Rockies to collide with warm moist air from the gulf. The Fall season follows the summer heat warming even the higher latitudes and the north doesn't produce the same air mass and the conflict with the warmer moist air from the Gulf is much less severe. If hurricanes distribute heat away from the equatorial latitudes toward the poles, the transition is less violent when the poles are a little warmer. After all, the "greenhouse effect" assumes a warmer Earth which also means a more uniformly warmer Earth.

[One_more_turn]

After Katrina last year, lots insurers pulled out of that market altogether, driving insurance rates into stratospherical heights. In some instances, such as Harrah's Entertainment's casinos, have no choice but to pay premiums up to 50% of the coverage! The only player in town is Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway and you can imagine what killing Buffett made this time.

Buffett's stock is hovering around its all-time high of $96,000 per share. It seems investors are waiting for the end of the hurricane season to load up more.