Pakistan Officially Offers Bin Ladin Sanctuary

[Lorizael]

But Pakistan, I thought you were my friend!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian
Pakistan is a friggin' mess. Assuming nobody's been misquoted here... isn't this just an admission of reality?

-Arrian

Its reality that theyve never had control over Waziristan, and to get control would require either a larger military force, letting US or Nato troops in, or both, and that they dont really have the resources for the former, and they dont have the domestic political support for the latter. So yeah, it IS a friggin mess.

But its also true that OBL and Zawahiri twice tried to kill Musharraf, and the notion that hed just say yeah, OBL can be a good citizen, and thumb his nose at the US by saying so, seems beyond credible. It is NOT made easy to discuss the REAL mess when any old thing can be floated, as long as its embarrassing to US policy. If, as I suspect, this is a misquote, I think the accountability of ABC needs to be examined (it goes without saying that the admin should be held accountable for its mistakes, before anyone jumps on me about that)

[Dinner]

Sorry Boshko but my thread was first.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156983

[lord of the mark]

"Q. ABC News: If Bin Laden or [Ayman al-] Zawahri were there, they could stay?

A. Gen Sultan: No-one of that kind can stay. If someone is there he will have to surrender, he will have to live like a good citizen, his whereabouts, exit travel would be known to the authorities.

Q. ABC News: So, he wouldn't be taken into custody? He would stay there?

A. Gen Sultan: No, as long as one is staying like a peaceful citizen, one would not be taken into custody. One has to stay like a peaceful citizen and not allowed to participate in any kind of terrorist activity. "

Obviously Gen Sultan is first saying no one like OBL can stay. He then segues that if someone, obviously meanin ordinary Taliban, NOT OBL, surrendere and will live like a good citizen he would only have to give his location to authorities. ABC asks "would HE be taken into custody" without specifying that they are talking about OBL - either the reporter missed the segue, or is ignoring it.

The general then fails to pick up that ABC missed his segue.


ABC

[SlowwHand]

Taliban are wanted criminals. That's all that needs to be said.

It's not a 1 person show.

[Pekka]

If this all is true, I think they shouldn't be called allies even in the most out of the touch of reality-speeches.

I smell lots of rain coming in.

[Lorizael]

I think you're inferring an awful lot there, LoTM. I'm not really sure that you know enough about this general's intentions and mindset to make such assumptions about what he meant.

A literal interpretation of that conversation would seem to indicate that Pakistan would not take someone like OBL into custody.

Any other interpretation is speculation.

I suspect language barriers.

[Arrian]

I think LotM's interpretation is reasonable, but I can't say for sure (language barrier is indeed possible).

-Arrian

[Dinner]

A Pakistani General is going to speak English just fine and he would fully understand the questions ABC was asking. That fellow was just being deliberately evasive.

[Lorizael]

Well I'm glad Oerdin's got the facts.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Lorizael
I think you're inferring an awful lot there, LoTM. I'm not really sure that you know enough about this general's intentions and mindset to make such assumptions about what he meant.

Except my reading exactly matches what the general told AP, if you read my post above.

Yup, he knows english. Its the ABC reporter who has the English problems, since in his follow up question he ignored the obvious change in referand for "he".


I live with someone who has an annoying tendency to overuse pronouns, and change referands. QOTM: "The history teacher gave POTM extra homework, shes really making me upset" "er, the history teacher is making you upset, or POTM is making you upset?" This is common problem with English speakers who are less than precise in their usage. In this case I blame the ABC reporter for the imprecise usage, and the ABC editors for not catching it.

[LordShiva]

Shouldn't LOTM's wife (if QOTM does indeed refer to LOTM's wife) be Lady OTM?

But I think LOTM's interpretation is spot on otherwise.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by LordShiva
Shouldn't LOTM's wife (if QOTM does indeed refer to LOTM's wife) be Lady OTM?

But I think LOTM's interpretation is spot on otherwise.

You need to go back and see the thread, "Is the Lord of the Mark a king?" We got a very involved discussion of Tolkien lore, and established that Theoden, Lord of the Mark, is sometimes called King of Rohan.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96296

[SlowwHand]

Pakistan vows to help Kabul crush Taliban

By Sayed Salahuddin
16 minutes ago

KABUL (Reuters) - Pakistan, criticized by some Afghan leaders over cross-border infiltration by the Taliban, vowed on Wednesday to help its neighbor fight terrorism as
Afghanistan battles its worst violence in five years.

After lengthy talks with his Afghan counterpart, Hamid Karzai, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf said he was committed to crushing the Taliban, their al Qaeda allies and "Talibanisation," a reference to the spread of hardline Islam.

"The best way to fight this common enemy is to join hands, trust each other and form a common strategy," he told reporters in Kabul, days before the fifth anniversary of the September 11 attacks that prompted the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan.

The use of Pakistani territory by the Taliban, other militant groups and criminals has soured relations between the two countries. Rebels and criminals can freely cross the rugged mountainous frontier, barely controlled in parts.

Some Afghan leaders have accused Islamabad of failing to do enough to stop infiltration, or even of continuing to support its former protege, the Taliban.

Islamabad says it does all it can and on Tuesday struck a deal with pro-Taliban rebels in a tribal region bordering Afghanistan under which the militants agreed to stop raids in both Pakistan and across the border.

NATO FIRM

"Any militant activity will be addressed with force. No Talibanisation. No Taliban activity on our side of the border and across the border in Afghanistan," Musharraf said.

Karzai welcomed the assurances.

"I am very happy today that ... the president of Pakistan assured me that he will try to get rid of this disease from the region," Karzai told a joint news conference at his palace.

Hundreds of Pakistani troops and rebels have been killed in the Waziristan region as the government attempts to push its authority into the semi-autonomous tribal lands on the border.

While the United States and other Afghan allies reject accusations that Pakistan continues to formally support the Taliban, some analysts say moral and other cross-border support from groups with strong ethnic and cultural ties remains.

The issue of cross-border movement clouded
President George W. Bush's visit to Islamabad early this year and Musharraf's pledge comes ahead of a trip to the United States and Cuba and an expected meeting with Bush.

In Washington, White House spokesman Tony Snow said Islamabad says the Waziristan ceasefire would not undermine the hunt for
Osama bin Laden and was aimed at combating extremism.

With the Taliban regrouping, especially in its birthplace of Kandahar province bordering Pakistan, NATO launched its biggest offensive against the guerrillas at the weekend.

NATO says it has killed more than 250 Taliban fighters, but the Taliban says NATO casualty estimates are exaggerated. At least five Canadian soldiers have died in combat in the campaign, Operation Medusa, and 14 British troops were killed when their plane crashed.

Three more British soldiers died on Wednesday, the defense ministry said. Two died in clashes in Helmand, the major drug-growing province west of Kandahar, while a third died after being wounded in fighting last Friday.

Also on Wednesday, a suicide bomber attacked a car in eastern Khost province, mistaking it for one belonging to a district chief, and killed a headmaster and a civil servant.

NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said the alliance would not be deterred by the Taliban resurgence and would go ahead with its planned takeover from U.S.-led forces in the volatile east. The alliance is due to take control of the east, near Pakistan, by year-end.

"The ongoing violence in some areas of the country, as we are experiencing and witnessing today, will not deter NATO from carrying out its mission," he said, winding up a visit by a high-level delegation from the alliance.

NATO forces have run into stiffer-than-expected resistance from the Taliban leading up to and following their July 31 takeover of the south from U.S. troops.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


You need to go back and see the thread, "Is the Lord of the Mark a king?" We got a very involved discussion of Tolkien lore, and established that Theoden, Lord of the Mark, is sometimes called King of Rohan.


http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=96296

Doh, missed that thread during my hiatus. Good fun

-Arrian