Disturbing Christian material . . . . . . . .

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


There was also some guy named Baba Ram Das who had a similar organization in the US. He fled the country to evade tax evasion charges - he evidently didn't understand that onloy so much would be allowed tax exempt for religious purposes. I'm certain he retreated to India.

A huge percentage of Hindu religious leaders , mostly those who try to milk their followers , are total shams . They spout the same old rubbish , collect people's money , live the good life , and then get exposed in some scandal or the other . Then there are the small minority who are actual good leaders , like the Swaminarayan sect , or the followers of Panduranga Shastri Athawale , or the RamKrishna Mission . I'm willing to tolerate even the shams and fakes as long as they

a) Do not harm their followers , and
b) Use the money they are given for social work ( they usually are given so much that they can't spend even a fraction of it ) . That way , they are not a net loss to society .

A lot of these shady characters come to the USA under the Hindu banner and cause a lot of trouble and them flee back to some or the other place .

This is , alas , an inevitable problem caused by the nearly complete freedom which Hinduism provides . In the olden days , there was a system of checks and balances , but the majority having been so delegitimised by the rhetoric of the times , things are difficult .

[LordShiva]

Religion

Science

[Jon Miller]

But they aren't related.

JM

[Elok]

Total freedom...okay, this has always puzzled me, Aneeshm: how the deuce do you explain the caste system?

[MrFun]

I read BK's posts concerning the "fact" of eternal damnation of non-Christian believers.

I consider myself a non-denominational Christian who believes in the glorious legacy of Jesus Christ. But I also believe that there is more than one legitimate way to believe in God -- I refuse to believe that Jews and Muslims are condemned to hell. I think it's more important for someone to find their own personal, best way to affirm their belief in God, rather than whether or not they pratice a Christian religion. Even though Jews and Muslims do not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, they still believe in the same God.

I take this further, and even state that people who do not adhere to any institution of any of the three religions, but still have a sincere, personal belief in God are saved from damnation. To me, a spiritual belief in God is more important than adherence to institutional dogma.

[Flip McWho]

How much steed do you put into the Bible?

Cause the only way for christians into heaven is through a belief in Jesus as your lord and saviour. Thats pretty much the whole point of the NT.

Effectively rules every religious sect out 'cept Christianity for the afterlife win.

[Jon Miller]

The only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ. I disagree with MrFun there. As said by Paul, people who don't know of Jesus can still be saved through Him.

It is also true that if you beleive in Jesus (what He represents/etc more than just His existence) you will be saved, but this isn't available for everyone (because of us Christians not doing our part to spread the word).

JM
(and yelling to someone on the street corner is not spreading the word, most likely it isn't even heard, based on our presentation of it)

(same with be a Christian or burn in the fires of hell forever, for most people that isn't communication, it isn't telling them about Jesus)

[LordShiva]

Since one can't choose to believe something, I can't decide for myself "Hey, I'm going to believe in the teachings of Jesus from today." Am I screwed?

[Jon Miller]

You are missing what I said.

A -> B doesn't mean that B -> A. In this case A -> B -> C, and C -> B, but B /-> A. However, if the message gets through to you, but you refuse to beleive (and people can decide to beleive something, or refuse to beleive it.. you can see it all the time).. then yeah, you aren't saved.

JM
(for example, people who beleive in science believe in science because they want to beleive in it.. same with Christianity and everything else that people believe in. Now it is true, that for someone to know that there is something to beleive in, that thing must be expressed.. just shouting believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved is not expressing Christianity)

[LordShiva]

Belief and volition are quite separate, IMO. People who believe in science believe in it not because they want to (though they probably do want to), but because something about it appeals to that subconscious part of their brain that deals with belief. It's probably the same way with religious and political beliefs.

[Jon Miller]

Nah, it is because they want to. Generally it is people who like science, but don't really understand it who are like this. Or people who do understand science and do it, but are extremely egotistical.

JM
(I find beleiving in science to be extremely silly myself)

[LordShiva]

Since I like science, here's a little experiment:

Try, just for today, to believe in the opposite of what you'd usually believe. "Want" to believe in it. Then, when you've had enough, "want" to stop believing in it, and "want" to go back to believing in what you believed before you started.

Well, I tried, and I couldn't do it.

[Jon Miller]

Oh, I like science. I am a scientist. Which is why I find it rediculous to beleive in science.

I can do that with politics and the like. However, in Christianity you can have experience.. and it takes wanting to not beleive for enough time for the experience to fade from memory before you can't stop beleiving.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Btw, you are giving the standard Calvanist position.

JM

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I can do that with politics and the like.

Can you? I'm impressed.