How can I be more laid back?

[Dis]

yeah masturbation really doesn't work that much. I've been told it reduces stress. So I used to do it right before work. It didn't work that much.

Drinking doesn't work unless you are drunk 24 hours a day. It's difficult to hold a job (or in his case go to school) like that.

weed. meh. I just wasn't impressed. I think like alcohol, you'd have to be high 24 hours a day.

sex. Sex for me is just more than a few minutes. The "high" does last for a few hours. But then I'm back to normal. .

Cockney is right. You basically have to change your outlook on life. Easier said than done as he said.

[johncmcleod]

First off, how should I do that? I don't even know what my outlook is. On top of that, I'm not even sure if that is the problem. I think it may be I just have a nervous personality. And if that's the case, what should I do?

[Kuciwalker]

If you're tense, think "should I care" and answer no. I did this and it's worked wonders.

[Snotty]

We are all nervous, all of us. Try to focus on making the other person less nervous and more comfortable by saying and doing to them all the things that make you less nervous when people talk to you. Thats social skills, you know what makes you calmer and more relaxed when someone speaks to you, thats all the other person wants as well.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Snotty
We are all nervous, all of us. Try to focus on making the other person less nervous and more comfortable by saying and doing to them all the things that make you less nervous when people talk to you. Thats social skills, you know what makes you calmer and more relaxed when someone speaks to you, thats all the other person wants as well.

I've thought about this as well. Although easier said than done again.

Because when I meet people like myself that don't talk much, I'm uncomfortable. And then I realize how uncomofortable I make other people. Too often I blame other people for not wanting to talk to me, when in truth, it's because I make them uncomfortable, they don't want to talk to me (although in some cases they probably don't like me).

And my friend (though lately I've said that we aren't friends- I have no idea what we are now) said at first she thought I was stuck up. I'm still kind of blown away at this. I had no idea I gave people this impression. Perhaps because I seemed intelligent to her (I'm serious ), and I didn't talk much, she thought that I thought she was beneath me (though I did want her to be beneath me ).

This is where empathy and good social skills are important. You must think of the other persons reactions and feelings when conversating with them. And just maybe, in my case, it would make me less nervous. Because I wouldn't be self obsessing over my own thoughts. But this is still a work in progress for me. But I am trying to be more caring and empathetic. I'm much better than I was as a teenager.

[Darius871]

As the great sage Moe Scizlak once said, "Booze, booze, and more booze."

[Sikander]

Originally posted by johncmcleod
First off, how should I do that? I don't even know what my outlook is. On top of that, I'm not even sure if that is the problem. I think it may be I just have a nervous personality. And if that's the case, what should I do?

You could try to take control of yourself as I suggested earlier. You could also get a medical work-up in order to understand the nature of your affliction, assuming that they find one. There may be a medication that will make you feel better.

[Snotty]

I think one of the most dangerous ideas in psychiatry is the idea that many people need counselling or medication for things that are a natural part of the human condition. For example, the vast majority of people wont need counselling for grief, they can depend on their social networks for the support they need. likewise many young men are going to feel nervous, or have low social skills. Learning to overcome that is part of the process of growing up, and doesnt necessarily need medication.

I had the great fortune to fall in with a group of confident ~30 year olds when I was in my late teens and early twenties. These people were great role models in confidence and are part of the reason Ive grown to be strong like I am. note that these people arent exactly the role models your parents would want for you but I got to observe how being confident is better for everyone around me

johncmcleod, you should try to get to one of the polymeets, preferably the London one! we dont give a damn if a guys a bit quiet, we make enough noise anyway. Come and crash round my place for a while, maybe you need to get away for a while and hang with a happy group of young adults at play. Youre always welcome round here

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Snotty
I think one of the most dangerous ideas in psychiatry is the idea that many people need counselling or medication for things that are a natural part of the human condition. For example, the vast majority of people wont need counselling for grief, they can depend on their social networks for the support they need. likewise many young men are going to feel nervous, or have low social skills. Learning to overcome that is part of the process of growing up, and doesnt necessarily need medication.

I had the great fortune to fall in with a group of confident ~30 year olds when I was in my late teens and early twenties. These people were great role models in confidence and are part of the reason Ive grown to be strong like I am. note that these people arent exactly the role models your parents would want for you but I got to observe how being confident is better for everyone around me

johncmcleod, you should try to get to one of the polymeets, preferably the London one! we dont give a damn if a guys a bit quiet, we make enough noise anyway. Come and crash round my place for a while, maybe you need to get away for a while and hang with a happy group of young adults at play. Youre always welcome round here

Why does this sound disturbing to me? There's just something too Greek about it.


Anyway, John, you just need to stop worrying and learn to love the bomb.

[Snotty]

I can only assume you mean something to do with Greeks and boys Im as straight as they come mate

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by johncmcleod
I don't even know what my outlook is.

That might be the deep problem behind most of your problems.

When I read your threads, I can't help but get the impression that you're rationalizing a behaviour that you feel is being wrong, deep down. My general impression is that you feel at a loss because you don't know who you really are. At least, that's what I get from your threads.

You should try to interrogate yourself about who you really are, waht your values are, what your worldview is, what your specific traits of character are etc. And you should look for an answer.

Knowing that is the first step into accepting yourself as who you are, or into knowing what you'd like to be. In any case, it is a necessary step into actually having self-esteem, which seems to be something you're sorely lacking. After all, one can't have self-esteem if one doesn't have a "self" to begin with.

[johncmcleod]

Snotty, I agree with you about the medication. I think people need to learn to overcome their problems by themselves and naturally. That makes the stronger and grow as a person. Simply using drugs doesn't do this. So that is why I want to become less nervous on my own, without medication. But so far the only suggestion I know how to do is mediation. I'll try that, but I'd love to be able to do more.

And thanks for the invite, however, as much as I love to travel (I just discovered this in my first trip to Europe to see the world cup in Germany this summer), I don't think I'll make it to London for a long time. Though there is a chance I might get to spend my junior year in college at Oxford, if I can get into the program at my school.

That might be the deep problem behind most of your problems.

When I read your threads, I can't help but get the impression that you're rationalizing a behaviour that you feel is being wrong, deep down. My general impression is that you feel at a loss because you don't know who you really are. At least, that's what I get from your threads.

You're probably right. Elaborate the first sentence. What do you mean that I am rationalizing a behavior I feel is wrong? Can you give me an example (hypothetical or real)?

I might not know 'who I really am,' but I really don't know what this means. On top of that, I think I understand myself well. I have sort of learned to psychoanalyze myself. I daydream a lot (I'll just sit there and space off), random daydreams that I don't control, they just happen, and my main method is analyzing my daydreams and seeing what I really want. I have learned a lot about myself. An example of something I have learned is that I have a very strong desire to be the center of attention (I think I know some of the reasons why, but I don't want to take up too much of your time with tangential details. I'd also like to add that my posts on poly are unaffected by this desire, as I don't care about attention on an internet forum, I want it from people I can actually see. So don't throw out my posts and say 'he just wants attention.' I'm very sure about this). Anyway, here's a minor example of something I'll do.

Today, I was daydreaming and I daydreamed that it was a few years from now, and me and my acquaintances were a few years into college, two or three maybe. Anyway, I daydreamed that I got a college girlfriend, but we broke up, and in the summertime, she coincidentally ran into a group of my acquaintances. They found out she went to my college, they asked if she knew me, and she said I was her ex. She then said, "yeah, that kid is really messed up. I mean he is a nice kid, but he has some serious emotional issues." And then they all thought of me and felt bad for me. This isn't true at all, I think I'm pretty mentally healthy, however, I could tell from the dream that it was their attention I wanted.

Or later on, I daydreamed that it was a couple years on the future, and I had turned into a drug addict. I was a homeless bum, and a good friend of mine walked by. I called out her name, and she saw me and barely recognized me, and then I got a really embarassed look on my face. I then explained to her my story of how I had gotten into the world of drugs, had dropped out of college, etc. etc. And she then felt really bad for me.

Of course this probably makes me sound really messed up. I'm not as bad as I sound in writing. If you knew me, you'd think I was pretty normal. I have had nothing bad happen to me, have a loving family, picture perfect life, am very innocent and young for my years, have a lack of life experience, and am a cheery guy. I am way healthier than most people. Anyway, most of my daydreams aren't like that, and I don't just want attention through sympathy, I'll take what I can get. I'll still daydream all the time about leading the anti-capitalist revolution in Latin America, doing a lot of justice and becoming famous and revered by the left. Or I'll daydream about leading the team to the state championship and getting the winning touchdown, or becoming the USA's first internationally renowned soccer star, dominating in professional play in La Liga in Spain, and taking the national team to the world cup final and beating Italy with the most brilliant individual performance in the modern history of the game and getting all of the praise.

Sorry for the tangent, that is just an example. So back to what I was saying.

You should try to interrogate yourself about who you really are, waht your values are, what your worldview is, what your specific traits of character are etc. And you should look for an answer.

Knowing that is the first step into accepting yourself as who you are, or into knowing what you'd like to be. In any case, it is a necessary step into actually having self-esteem, which seems to be something you're sorely lacking. After all, one can't have self-esteem if one doesn't have a "self" to begin with.

I don't know if I know myself or not (but I know it well in some ways, ie psychoanalyzing myself, and on top of that, I can usually identify and analyze my problems way better than most of my peers can, but I don't know if that is what you mean by 'interrogate myself,' is it or is it not?), but I don't think I've defined myself. I think this is a good thing. I am not arrogant enough to have strong views about myself and the world at a young age (I know I am young for my years anyway and have a helluva lot to figure out). I don't really believe in an accuracte moral system, I'm kind of existentialist and don't believe the universe is rational and that things can be categorized and set in a rational, ordered system such as morality.

As for values, I value education. I work hard in school. But I don't know what else. I don't really enjoy stuff. When I'm not busy, I just kind of sit there and space off or maybe read. I'm really boring in that way. As for worldview, define that? I am very liberal and anti-capitalist, though I have a lot to learn and I can't articulate my political views too well, yet. But I have a lot of thoughts on a lot of things and could go on for hours talking to you about it.

Character traits? I'm different in every situation, and I'm changing a lot, but I've noticed some consistencies. I'm nervous, talk loudly and quickly, especially when I am excited about something. I think I'm a pretty nice guy, and I can be compassionate and feel strongly for other people (though this is very rare, I know I have the capability). I'm kind of boring like I said, and a little nerdy on the outside, though probably not nearly as bad as some of the people here. I am pretty well-liked, I don't really have enemies. Most people will say, oh yeah, I know John, he's pretty nice. So I am well-liked, though I don't think I have a lot of close friendships. If I were to make out my top 5 list, as in my top five favorite people in the world, I don't think I'd land in any of their top 5, if that makes sense.

Once I get to know people, I become less self-conscious, let my guard down, and care less of what they think of me, and care less about whether or not they'll think I'm weird. I'll just sort of be myself and not really care. Which means I talk non-stop. I won't shut up, and it annoys the hell out of people. I have no social skills in dealing with groups of people especially. I can be self-conscious and be really quiet, or I can not care and just be really annoying. The only thing in between is maybe talking some, but not really saying anything important and just kind of being there (not that when I talk a lot what I say is important). I am overall pretty boring to, and I definitely feel this way when I am not as self-conscious with people and 'be myself.' I feel incredibly boring and don't have a lot of fun usually. Maybe that is because I am not very funny and can't make people laugh (at least not with me).

These are some things I'd like to work on when I go to college and start over. One of them is my nervousness, why I started the thread in the first place. When I go to college, I want to work on being cool, laid back, outoing, and quieter (ie more of a listener). I can be outgoing, but I want to be the outgoing where I can be cool with anyone I meet right of the bat, and everyone will know me and like me, and I'll be someone they'd all like to hang out with. I'd like to be the type that is interested in them and asks them a lot of questions. I think people will like me more this way, as in if I always go up and talk to everyone, but in all of these conversations I do only 30-40% of the talking, if that makes sense. Obviously I love to talk (and would rather than listen, and sometimes don't listen well, but that isn't a good trait to have. I want to be more interested in others and less self-centered, to put it that way. Maybe that is something you guys can also help me with.

I can be real spineless sometimes (especially when it comes to morality as I mentioned before), so maybe that is why I am not defined as a self. I don't know. So I think I have an idea of who I want to be (I listed some of the traits, outgoing, laid back, etc.), so how do I become defined as this, find myself, etc. and all of this other stuff you recommend? You have stated what I need to do, I think, though it is too vague, how do I do it?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by johncmcleod
You're probably right. Elaborate the first sentence. What do you mean that I am rationalizing a behavior I feel is wrong? Can you give me an example (hypothetical or real)?

Well, to put it simply, girls and sex. You seem to defend a very analytical point of view (sex is not mandatory, it is most often shallow, etc.), while your posts on the matter read that your actual feelings are completely divergent from what your brain says.

I would seriously advise you to attempt to accept your emotions, instead of fighting against them. It's an essential part to our humanity. I'd also say that it might help you being less nervous, since living in harmony with one's emotions helps being at peace with oneself.

Once I get to know people, I become less self-conscious, let my guard down, and care less of what they think of me, and care less about whether or not they'll think I'm weird. I'll just sort of be myself and not really care. Which means I talk non-stop.

Heck, my ex is like that, and it didn't prevent me from spending 2.5 years with her (and I'm not the one who left). It didn't prevent her to make plenty of close friends.
Heck, she was so much like that, that my slow speech annoyed her

I also have two friends who talk like crazy. While I generally phase out at some point during their monologues, it certainly doesn't prevent me from appreciating them.

And I see you still have friends, despite talking non-stop when you're with them. So, if it's a part of yourself, be yourself (while being aware that you won't be compatible with everybody, no matter what "yourself" is)

I am overall pretty boring to, and I definitely feel this way when I am not as self-conscious with people and 'be myself.' I feel incredibly boring and don't have a lot of fun usually. Maybe that is because I am not very funny and can't make people laugh (at least not with me).

I have barely any humour either. The only times I get people to laugh is when I actually believe something completely off the mark. Well, it doesn't prevent me from having many friends (including quite a few very close ones), with whom I have a deep bond.

I want to be more interested in others and less self-centered, to put it that way. Maybe that is something you guys can also help me with.

Get to know more people, and try to discuss with them individually. You won't feel much empathy for most people, but you'll notice there's a real possibility of someone having a depth you'll find interesting.

So I think I have an idea of who I want to be (I listed some of the traits, outgoing, laid back, etc.), so how do I become defined as this, find myself, etc. and all of this other stuff you recommend? You have stated what I need to do, I think, though it is too vague, how do I do it?

When it comes to acquiring experience, things are vague. Experience is not like math: you can't just share the knowledge to a student, have the student learn it by the book, and voilà.

First thing about experience is that it's strictly an individual thing. Experience is basically the process of changing (either slightly or dramatically) based on an external event one is exposed to. For me, any strong change requires part analysis, part real-world obstacle (I have to make up my mind so that I can understand what I'm going to learn from the next real-world event like that I'll encounter). And I'm a pretty analystical person. Someone who acts more on emotions would need much less reflexion in order to change his ways after a specific event.

As such, when I share my experience with you, I don't intend to give you a "ready-to-use" package of life-changing tools, but I simply expose what I went through, so that you can see if you have similarities, and take inspiration from what I did in those circumstances similar to yours.

In any case, when I read you, I get the feeling that:
1. You'll define yourself more precisely, especially when you'll be in college. It won't be immediate, and is likely to take years (actually, defining oneself is a constant task for an entire lifetime, but most young adults have a definition of themselves that's sufficient).

2. When you ask questions about the "how?", there are plenty of times you shouldn't expect a definitive answer, simply because there is no definitive answer. This is especially true for emotional matters, but this is true in plenty of mundane situations as well.
Heck, when I was a construction worker, there were absolutely plenty of tasks where no method could exist, simply because those were taks with rare specifics. And as long as I asked seasoned workers "how" I should deal with the problem I sucked. I became much better once I understood I had to think by myself about solving the problem.
What I want to say is that, when you ask "how?", the first thing is to ask yourself that question, and devise an answer you think will work with the specifics of the situation. Those specifics are your personality, the personalities of the people you're dealing with etc.
If you're unsure that your solution is wise, you might come to 'Poly. If you're thinking of something stupid, people will slag you for it (actually, the OT has recently developed into a slagfest, so you'll be slagged even if your solution is perfect, but not by the same people).

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Snotty
I think one of the most dangerous ideas in psychiatry is the idea that many people need counselling or medication for things that are a natural part of the human condition. For example, the vast majority of people wont need counselling for grief, they can depend on their social networks for the support they need. likewise many young men are going to feel nervous, or have low social skills. Learning to overcome that is part of the process of growing up, and doesnt necessarily need medication.

QFT

Kudos to John for being willing to outgrow his nervosity, instead of wanting the superficial way out

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Snotty
I think one of the most dangerous ideas in psychiatry is the idea that many people need counselling or medication for things that are a natural part of the human condition. For example, the vast majority of people wont need counselling for grief, they can depend on their social networks for the support they need. likewise many young men are going to feel nervous, or have low social skills. Learning to overcome that is part of the process of growing up, and doesnt necessarily need medication.

I had the great fortune to fall in with a group of confident ~30 year olds when I was in my late teens and early twenties. These people were great role models in confidence and are part of the reason Ive grown to be strong like I am. note that these people arent exactly the role models your parents would want for you but I got to observe how being confident is better for everyone around me

johncmcleod, you should try to get to one of the polymeets, preferably the London one! we dont give a damn if a guys a bit quiet, we make enough noise anyway. Come and crash round my place for a while, maybe you need to get away for a while and hang with a happy group of young adults at play. Youre always welcome round here

I agree.. a lot of people seem to think it is wrong to be an introvert.

JM