Middle East Continued Again...

[Ramo]

Basically, sure.

[Ecthy]

Or New England for the US? What happens when Canada annexes New England?

[Ramo]

Is there something that you're driving at?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Ramo
Basically, sure.

What, those dozen abandoned farms are the cradle of Lebanese civilisation, full of ancient religious monuments? Is that where they lost to the Turks at the Battle of Shebaa Polje in 1389? Surely not.

According to Wiki :

The dispute over the sovereignty of the Shebaa Farms originated in part with the failure of the French Mandate administrations to properly demarcate the border between Lebanon and Syria. Documents from the 1920s and 1930s show that the local inhabitants regarded themselves part of Lebanon, for example paying taxes to the Lebanese government, but that French officials often expressed confusion on the question of where the border lay.[7] A French official in 1939 expressed the belief that the uncertainty was sure to cause trouble in the future.

...

The disputed territory was not apparently mentioned by the Lebanese government after the 1967 Six Day War or the 1973 October War as an occupation issue and appears to have arisen only as a result of the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon in May 2000.

Since the controversy over the border surfaced in 2000 after the UN had certified Israel's withrawal from Lebanon as full and complete and especially after Syria's withdrawal from Lebanon, various members of the international diplomatic community have repeatedly requested that Syria and Lebanon take steps to determine the exact boundary between them in the Shebaa Farms region and elsewhere, including officially registering the demarcated border with the United Nations. However, no action on this matter by the two countries has taken place.

[Ramo]

Key word: basically. What you lose in cultural significance, you gain in temporal proximity. As I said, I don't really give a ****, but it's part of the narrative.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Were you opposed to the American and NATO response to 9/11 in Afghanistan?

I was.

[Guardian]

Was I opposed to getting rid of the Taliban?

Most definitely not.


Was I opposed to foreign powers going in and doing so by force.

No, I wasn't.


Was I opposed to missiles and cluster bombs raining down all over the country, killing and maiming countless civilians, destroying homes and infrastructure countless more civilians depended upon?

Well, yes. Yes, I was.
But I'm really not sure I could have done better myself, and I still think it was a good call to go in there.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Who is responsible for Hezbollah? The people of Lebanon share in it, and they are sharing in the fruits.

Who is responsible for Olmert? The people of Israel share in it, and they are sharing in the fruits.

[Kuciwalker]

Okay. Now that we're admitting each side is getting its just deserts we can stop lambasting Israel, right?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Okay. Now that we're admitting each side is getting its just deserts we can stop lambasting Israel, right?

Nope, because it was sarcasm.

I oppose innocent Israelis getting killed, even though their elected government has started a war that killed hundreds of innocents.

That's because I think that when democracies are involved in war, the moral choice is to either support the murder of any civilian, or oppose the murder of any civilian.

I oppose the murder of any civilian. I see that NYE's logic has nothing against Israeli civilians getting murdered by Hezbollah.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Indeed... there is no reason that, for example, an Isreali in Haifa who voted for Peretz or some peace party should die because his government is a bunch of aggressive ****s (which is presumably the reason that person voted against them). It isn't right.

[Cort Haus]

Hezbollah Rally

Is it just me, or do these guys remind one of another anti-Jewish force in history?

[MOBIUS]

Lebanon economy reels as attacks continue

By Jorn Madslien
Business reporter, BBC News

In just two weeks of sustained Israeli attacks, the Lebanese economy has been knocked so far back it may never fully recover.

Gains from years of rebuilding have been wiped out in two weeks

Almost all the war-torn country's bridges and 80% of its major roads have been crushed. Airports and ports, telecoms sites and TV towers, schools and hospitals have been bombed.

"The effect on the economy is going to be very, very drastic," says BLC Bank's chairman, Shadi Karam.

The damage to the country's infrastructure so far amounts to more than $1bn (£540m), economists estimate.

Yet the total cost could be much larger.

This isn't an attack on hezb - this is an attack on the nation of Lebanon!!!

The Lebanese had no capacity whatsoever to do anything about hezb - but apparently it's their fault!?

But "hezb are in the govt" people argue...

Yes, it's called A DEMOCRACY!!!

Apparently people like nye and sprayber want democracies just like the nice successful one in Iraq - but then they whine like babies when people they don't like are voted in...

All that shows me is that people like them aren't actually really interested in democracies at all...

"But the people in the south all support hezb, so it's OK to bomb them..."

So why is the whole country being targeted then!!?

The Israelis claim they are the victim of terrorism, but their attacks are far worse than any of the terrorism of hezb, in scope, magnitude and the proportion of civilians to military deaths - indeed 'officially' hezb had killed more Israeli soldiers then Israel has killed hezb militia, at least by yesterday!

People forget the Israeli state was born out of terrorism - indeed wasn't the 60th anniversary of the St David's Hotel massacre by Irgun celebrated just the other day? How ironic...

Israel doesn't give a flying **** about arab civilians as is evidenced this time around - indeed this whole conflict was precipitated by a number of botched attacks in Gaza that killed dozens of civilians between them, including the slaughter of the family picnicking on the beach...

Hell just ten years ago they bombed a UN compound killing 106 civilians sheltering there!!!

Not to mention their invasion of Lebanon in 1982 - the list goes on...

All these attacks have failed to stop PLO or hezb or Hamas in the past, so why should this one be any different it they have the same objective? Just more civilians being casually killed...

Remind me, who are the real terrorists again?

Still, at least Condoleeza Rice agrees with me...

[Eli]

Indeed... there is no reason that, for example, an Isreali in Haifa who voted for Peretz or some peace party should die because his government is a bunch of aggressive ****s (which is presumably the reason that person voted against them). It isn't right.

Well... Peretz is the defence minister.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Who is responsible for Olmert? The people of Israel share in it, and they are sharing in the fruits.

and olmert has directed the IDF to attack Hezbollah, an illegal terrorist group, which has no right (per UNSC 1559) to be armed at all, and which had, prior to the start of this operation, 10,000 missiles aimed at Israel. Which calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. And which cynically and deliberately places its stockpiles of missiles and its fighters into civilian neighborhoods, precisely to elicit reactions like yours.

Spiff, the right in Israel, the Likud, is in OPPOSITION to this govt. It is a center-left govt that is executing this operation, with the support of 85% at least of the Israeli public. IOW with the support of Israelis who oppose settlement on the West Bank, of Israelis who favor peace negotiations with the Pals, of Israelis who are NOT particularly hawkish. It would be well for you to consider WHY there is such consensus in Israel.