Rate the G8 in order of importance

[Saras]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Spambot for Windows?

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/SPCamo/wSPMBT/1.htm

[Colonâ„¢]

Interesting, I sort of liked Steel Panthers as well.

[Saras]

There's a "Belgian Wall" scenario, where i think a Belgian mechanised inf.co augmented by a W.German plattoon of Leo1 tanks tries to stop a massive Soviet attack. Extremely tough, but fun!

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Thorgal

5 Crédit Agricole France
11 Crédit Agricole France

Now thats an impressive bank

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Thorgal
Sorry for not quoting soooo many correlative posts, it would be too boring.

So NYE, it is worse that i thought. All you can say is that Canada as for instance Bulgary or Rumania has in his territory many foreign car factories (mainly from USA),

Actually, it's an integrated auto industry. American plants don't build a thing without the parts that come from Canada, and the same in reverse.

It's an indication of something that would lend influence, and believe me, NA auto makers have influence.

that have some troops in Afganistan (to please USA)

Actually, it's to honour NATO commitments. If we wanted to please the US, we would have sent troops to Iraq, which didn't happen.

and that the they have people working in the NORAD (another USA thingy).

Hello! North American Air Defence.

In case you hadn't noticed, there's this very large country that is very close to the USSR. Back in the day, Canadian targets were every bit as likely to be bombed as American ones, and a whole lot sooner.

We coordinate defence with the Yanks (our ally) because it makes sense to do so. Do you think NATO is 'another USA thingy'?

Your exports are almost totally to USA. I would say you are nothing but another USA state.

Yes, and so would many trolls.

Really, you're going to have to do better to keep this interesting.

We discover then that the key to see how strong important and relevant is any economy in the world is his "per-capita exports". In such case i wonder what the hell is USA doing in the G8. And why super-powers like Belgium, Hong Kong, Saudi Arabia or Netherlands are not.

Per capita income and total exports. Do try to follow along.

And then you post some punctual insignificancies to show how important Canada is, being the decisive moment you are so proud of when Canada dared to act without the approval of his metropoli. To reinforce so many weak points you even remark how bad italy did at the world war.

And I'm waiting for you to point out something of significance done by Italy, or Spain.

Here's another log for the fire.

Insulin and the polio vaccine.

The only objetive remark that deservers some attention:


THE WORLD’S 50 BIGGEST BANKS

1 UBS Switzerland
...

http://www.gfmag.com/c_aw/0510_03.php

So,we have banks from USA, France, Germany, UK, Japan, Switzerland, China, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium... help me, i cant find any from Canada...

It would be nice if your list was worth something. I'm trying to find the value, but I'm having a hard time given that it isn't explained. On what basis is it compiled? Looks like it might be assets. And then there are the same bank being there twice, and the National Westminster Bank being taken over by the RBoS 5 or so years ago... So what exactly is it a list of?

Incidently, RBC is 44th in assets of all companies in the world (not just banks) on the Forbes 2000. How do you explain RBC not being on that list?

http://www.forbes.com/lists/results.jhtml?passListId=18&passYear=2005&passListType=Company&searchParameter1=unset&searchParameter2=unset&resultsStart=1&resultsHowMany=100&resultsSortProperties=-numberfield4%2C%2Bstringfield2&resultsSortCategoryName=assets&passKeyword=&category1=category&category2=category&fromColumnClick=true

So, to summarise, you have gross domestic product that you feel is relevant regardless of the number of people it takes to create the sum, and you have a very flawed list of banks that seems to be ignoring some very large ones. You also have the appearance of a troll.

Do you have anything else to offer?

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Saras
There's a "Belgian Wall" scenario, where i think a Belgian mechanised inf.co augmented by a W.German plattoon of Leo1 tanks tries to stop a massive Soviet attack. Extremely tough, but fun!

I ought to find a Fulda Gap scn one of these years.

[Kuciwalker]

Your exports are almost totally to USA. I would say you are nothing but another USA state.

California >> Italy.

[Thorgal]

Per capita income and total exports. Do try to follow along.

Netherlands surpasses Canada in total exports too. BTW i dont see why your "invents" are more relevant to see the importance in world economy than GDP.

It would be nice if your list was worth something. I'm trying to find the value, but I'm having a hard time given that it isn't explained. On what basis is it compiled? Looks like it might be assets. And then there are the same bank being there twice, and the National Westminster Bank being taken over by the RBoS 5 or so years ago... So what exactly is it a list of?

Incidently, RBC is 44th in assets of all companies in the world (not just banks) on the Forbes 2000. How do you explain RBC not being on that list?

http://www.forbes.com/lists/results...olumnClick=true

So, to summarise, you have gross domestic product that you feel is relevant regardless of the number of people it takes to create the sum, and you have a very flawed list of banks that seems to be ignoring some very large ones. You also have the appearance of a troll.

So you post some silliness and i post a list of a reputed financial magazine. What a troll i am.

However "my" list of banks is flawed. Well protest Global Finance Magazine for no putting your beloved Canadian bank among the biggest 50 banks in the world.

Let me quote your own list ranked as it was ranked by Forbes.

1  	 Citigroup  	United States  	Banking  	108.28  	17.05  	1,484.10  	247.66
2 	General Electric 	United States 	Conglomerates 	152.36 	16.59 	750.33 	372.14
3 	American Intl Group 	United States 	Insurance 	95.04 	10.91 	776.42 	173.99
4 	Bank of America 	United States 	Banking 	65.45 	14.14 	1,110.46 	188.77
5 	HSBC Group 	United Kingdom 	Banking 	62.97 	9.52 	1,031.29 	186.74
6 	ExxonMobil 	United States 	Oil & gas operations 	263.99 	25.33 	195.26 	405.25
7 	Royal Dutch/Shell Group 	Netherlands/United Kingdom 	Oil & gas operations 	265.19 	18.54 	193.83 	221.49
8 	BP 	United Kingdom 	Oil & gas operations 	285.06 	15.73 	191.11 	231.88
9 	ING Group 	Netherlands 	Diversified financials 	92.01 	8.10 	1,175.16 	68.04
10 	Toyota Motor 	Japan 	Consumer durables 	165.68 	11.13 	211.15 	140.89
11 	UBS 	Switzerland 	Diversified financials 	62.22 	7.10 	1,115.90 	89.16
12 	Wal-Mart Stores 	United States 	Retailing 	285.22 	10.27 	120.62 	218.56
13 	Royal Bank of Scotland 	United Kingdom 	Banking 	46.65 	8.66 	1,119.90 	108.95
14 	JPMorgan Chase 	United States 	Banking 	50.12 	4.66 	1,138.47 	129.98
15 	Berkshire Hathaway 	United States 	Insurance 	74.21 	6.36 	181.86 	138.74
16 	BNP Paribas 	France 	Banking 	55.08 	5.80 	1,228.03 	64.39
17 	IBM 	United States 	Technology hardware & equipment 	96.29 	8.43 	109.18 	152.76
18 	Total 	France 	Oil & gas operations 	131.64 	8.84 	98.69 	151.13
18 	Verizon Commun 	United States 	Telecommunications services 	71.28 	7.83 	165.96 	99.64
20 	ChevronTexaco 	United States 	Oil & gas operations 	142.90 	13.33 	93.21 	131.52
21 	Barclays 	United Kingdom 	Banking 	41.22 	6.27 	1,002.09 	70.22
21 	Fannie Mae 	United States 	Diversified financials 	52.38 	7.69 	989.34 	56.58
23 	Nippon Tel & Tel 	Japan 	Telecommunications services 	106.30 	6.17 	170.12 	68.38
23 	Pfizer 	United States 	Drugs & biotechnology 	52.52 	11.36 	123.68 	197.99
25 	Altria Group 	United States 	Food, drink & tobacco 	63.96 	9.42 	101.65 	134.75
26 	AXA Group 	France 	Insurance 	97.92 	3.42 	554.39 	51.45
27 	Wells Fargo 	United States 	Banking 	33.88 	7.01 	427.85 	100.46
28 	Credit Suisse Group 	Switzerland 	Diversified financials 	58.78 	4.53 	955.23 	48.52
29 	ConocoPhillips 	United States 	Oil & gas operations 	118.72 	8.13 	92.86 	76.54
30 	ENI 	Italy 	Oil & gas operations 	79.31 	9.89 	82.25 	104.71
31 	Morgan Stanley 	United States 	Diversified financials 	39.55 	4.53 	775.41 	61.41
32 	HBOS 	United Kingdom 	Banking 	40.68 	4.38 	729.31 	62.13
33 	DaimlerChrysler 	Germany 	Consumer durables 	192.75 	3.35 	242.29 	47.04
34 	E.ON 	Germany 	Utilities 	53.51 	5.85 	138.77 	59.44
35 	Allianz Worldwide 	Germany 	Insurance 	112.35 	2.03 	1,127.66 	46.55
36 	France Telecom 	France 	Telecommunications services 	63.98 	3.80 	115.60 	74.66
36 	Siemens Group 	Germany 	Conglomerates 	93.49 	4.24 	92.92 	69.94
38 	Wachovia 	United States 	Banking 	28.04 	5.21 	411.14 	84.18
39 	Nestlé 	Switzerland 	Food, drink & tobacco 	70.95 	5.01 	71.10 	108.04
40 	SBC Communications 	United States 	Telecommunications services 	40.79 	5.95 	108.95 	79.42
41 	Mizuho Financial 	Japan 	Banking 	29.61 	3.90 	1,306.60 	58.41
42 	Société Générale Group 	France 	Banking 	43.43 	3.13 	678.36 	47.08
43 	Freddie Mac 	United States 	Diversified financials 	36.84 	4.82 	803.45 	42.75
44 	Merrill Lynch 	United States 	Diversified financials 	32.47 	4.44 	494.52 	54.58
45 	Procter & Gamble 	United States 	Household & personal products 	54.19 	6.94 	63.03 	133.92
46 	Banco Santander 	Spain 	Banking 	29.96 	3.28 	435.75 	77.70
47 	Microsoft 	United States 	Software & services 	38.47 	10.00 	64.94 	273.75
48 	Lloyds TSB Group 	United Kingdom 	Banking 	27.74 	5.81 	450.02 	52.78
49 	Fortis 	Netherlands 	Diversified financials 	62.27 	2.76 	656.00 	36.63
50 	Goldman Sachs Group 	United States 	Diversified financials 	29.84 	4.55 	531.38 	52.47
51 	Time Warner 	United States 	Media 	42.09 	3.33 	123.34 	79.06
52 	Mitsubishi Tokyo Finl 	Japan 	Banking 	23.58 	5.37 	1,014.56 	59.88
53 	ABN-Amro Holding 	Netherlands 	Banking 	26.86 	5.58 	825.81 	46.06
54 	Hewlett-Packard 	United States 	Technology hardware & equipment 	81.85 	3.50 	75.14 	60.48
55 	Honda Motor 	Japan 	Consumer durables 	78.20 	4.45 	78.23 	49.94
56 	Sumitomo Mitsui Financial 	Japan 	Banking 	33.54 	3.17 	962.87 	43.13
57 	PetroChina 	China 	Oil & gas operations 	36.70 	8.41 	64.23 	111.03
58 	Ford Motor 	United States 	Consumer durables 	170.84 	3.49 	305.13 	23.15
58 	Nissan Motor 	Japan 	Consumer durables 	71.17 	4.83 	73.74 	48.77
60 	Deutsche Telekom 	Germany 	Telecommunications services 	70.24 	1.58 	146.00 	88.09
61 	American Express 	United States 	Diversified financials 	29.12 	3.52 	193.00 	67.63
62 	Samsung Electronics 	South Korea 	Semiconductors 	54.38 	5.00 	56.56 	77.13
63 	Johnson & Johnson 	United States 	Drugs & biotechnology 	47.35 	8.51 	47.59 	194.68
64 	Deutsche Bank Group 	Germany 	Diversified financials 	26.76 	3.16 	1,009.66 	47.86
65 	General Motors 	United States 	Consumer durables 	193.45 	3.69 	479.13 	20.15
66 	BBVA-Banco Bilbao Vizcaya 	Spain 	Banking 	23.28 	3.80 	422.08 	58.83
67 	Gazprom 	Russia 	Oil & gas operations 	28.88 	5.84 	90.29 	69.90
68 	MetLife 	United States 	Insurance 	39.02 	2.84 	356.81 	30.55
69 	Crédit Agricole 	France 	Banking 	63.35 	1.29 	987.79 	43.19
70 	GlaxoSmithKline 	United Kingdom 	Drugs & biotechnology 	39.08 	8.26 	43.34 	140.39
71 	Intel 	United States 	Semiconductors 	34.21 	7.52 	48.14 	149.39
72 	ENEL 	Italy 	Utilities 	36.40 	3.16 	87.85 	58.86
72 	Home Depot 	United States 	Retailing 	73.09 	5.00 	38.91 	87.88
74 	Novartis Group 	Switzerland 	Drugs & biotechnology 	30.62 	6.25 	52.28 	122.07
75 	Generali Group 	Italy 	Insurance 	73.20 	1.28 	317.66 	42.51
76 	Allstate 	United States 	Insurance 	33.94 	3.36 	149.73 	36.66
77 	Aviva 	United Kingdom 	Insurance 	64.61 	1.69 	360.04 	28.48
77 	Zurich Financial Services 	Switzerland 	Insurance 	56.30 	2.30 	293.00 	26.54
79 	Tyco International 	Bermuda 	Conglomerates 	40.55 	2.87 	64.14 	67.40
80 	Telefsnica 	Spain 	Telecommunications services 	35.72 	2.77 	66.56 	91.44
81 	Roche Group 	Switzerland 	Drugs & biotechnology 	27.43 	5.83 	50.03 	107.99
82 	Renault Group 	France 	Consumer durables 	55.24 	4.82 	71.00 	25.87
83 	Aegon 	Netherlands 	Insurance 	48.88 	2.26 	311.16 	22.47
84 	Prudential Financial 	United States 	Insurance 	28.05 	2.31 	381.94 	29.24
85 	Telecom Italia 	Italy 	Telecommunications services 	38.80 	1.50 	100.76 	64.69
86 	Deutsche Post 	Germany 	Transportation 	50.34 	1.65 	193.73 	26.81
87 	BMW-Bayerische Motor 	Germany 	Consumer durables 	52.23 	2.45 	77.11 	28.93
88 	Petrobras-Petrsleo Brasil 	Brazil 	Oil & gas operations 	33.11 	6.15 	46.43 	48.38
89 	Royal Bank of Canada 	Canada 	Banking 	20.69 	2.31 	351.74 	37.90
90 	Tokyo Electric Power 	Japan 	Utilities 	46.50 	1.43 	129.79 	33.14
91 	Natl Australia Bank 	Australia 	Banking 	21.33 	2.31 	298.36 	35.45
92 	Unilever 	Netherlands/United Kingdom 	Food, drink & tobacco 	47.09 	2.14 	46.27 	65.57
93 	Dow Chemical 	United States 	Chemicals 	40.16 	2.80 	45.89 	52.59
94 	China Petroleum & Chemical 	China 	Oil & gas operations 	49.75 	2.61 	48.16 	44.97
94 	UniCredito Italiano 	Italy 	Banking 	19.86 	2.47 	299.22 	37.07
96 	Statoil Group 	Norway 	Oil & gas operations 	50.06 	4.11 	40.91 	39.44
97 	US Bancorp 	United States 	Banking 	14.71 	4.17 	195.10 	55.26
98 	Boeing 	United States 	Aerospace & defense 	52.46 	1.87 	53.96 	45.75
99 	Carrefour Group 	France 	Food markets 	88.66 	2.05 	48.00 	37.02
99 	Walt Disney 	United States 	Media 	30.87 	2.38 	55.45 	57.20

So the only Canadian company in the 100 main companies in the world is ranked the 89. Hardly in the 50 main banks list. However you have some of the largest and most "stable" banks in the world.

And I'm waiting for you to point out something of significance done by Italy, or Spain.

Well, they have more and larger banks to begin with. About Italy it is much more important economically and militarly. Spain is matched with Canada economically maybe Spanish economy is slighty larger and it is growing faster too. However it is stronger militarly and have an heavy influence in latinamerican economics, in fact it controls most of the communications energy and lately banking in almost all southamerican countries. It is the western country with better relations with arab countries, allways mediating in the ME issues. It has strong economical influence in the Magreb too. However i would no put Spain in the G8 either. I would rather put China or India. And of course Canada OUT.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Lancer
I ought to find a Fulda Gap scn one of these years.

Can I play the other side?

Oh the memories.

[RGBVideo]

Re: Rate the G8 in order of importance

US
Japan
Germany
Great Britain
Russia
France
Italy
Canada

[RGBVideo]

pre-emptive defense against notyoueither

As nations, both Italy and France have currently more strength than Canada has. Compare raw data about population, economy and military: they all make this painfully obvious. But Canada has a much brighter future than the one old Europe has. 50 years from now on, I wouldn't be surprised if the nation of Canada would be more important than the areas now known as France and Italy combined.

[notyoueither]

Re: pre-emptive defense against notyoueither

[notyoueither]

I don't think raw GDP as a total is that helpful. As with India, if it takes a billion people to get there it might not be as significant.

What are better numbers to look at? I suggested exports and per capita GDP.

On military matters, what does it matter if a country has more soldiers if those soldiers mostly don't do anything? There are 1300 Italians in Afghanistan. There are 2000 Canucks. I think what the military does outside the country is more important than how many people are in it, unless you're talking the Russians or Chinese. Neither Canada nor Italy are anywhere close to that.

[RGBVideo]

On military matters, what does it matter if a country has more soldiers if those soldiers mostly don't do anything?

By this logic, China is militarly irrelevant. Don't mistake lack of action for lack of strength.

I suggested exports and per capita GDP.

Luxembourg has a per capita GDP PPP of about $60k IIRC. For India, the same figure is little over $3k. Does this mean Luxembourg is around 20 times more powerful than India? We are measuring absolute importance, not relative per invididual.

I don't think raw GDP as a total is that helpful. As with India, if it takes a billion people to get there it might not be as significant.

I think both raw GDP total and population figures are important when measuring the importance of a nation. Other key things to look for are the amount and power of nuclear warheads controlled and the total strength of the nation's conventional armed forces.

OTOH, land area and natural resources are important things to look for when trying to grasp the future fate of the nation in question.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Can I play the other side?

Oh the memories.

Yeah no ****. I want the other side too.