Israel invades Lebanon after new capturing of soldiers

[Az]

One poster mentioned, a better response by Israel to the kidnappings in Gaza would have been, to work closely with the government there. I agree with this.

you mean the HAMAS government, that doesn't acknowledge Israel's right to exist? interesting!

What about giving lots of money to the palestinian government (and perhaps to other muslim neighbors) for antiterrorist activities (of course with keeping a tight control on where the money flows ) and offering to aid them in every possible way.

lol! everyone knows that the palestinian authority, even when it had a fatah government, never seriously fought the terrorists, so that a "war amongst brothers" (civil war? ) won't occur. They have no problem shooting each other for paychecks, and other stuff, btw.

Therefore not more using the stick, but rather the carrot to persuade them into showing the behavior you want.

And of course, stop all plans for enlarging the settlements within the Westbank or building new ones, or better still, abandon them like you did to the ones in Gaza.

Yeah, because look how well did that carrot in Gaza work....

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Az

One poster mentioned, a better response by Israel to the kidnappings in Gaza would have been, to work closely with the government there. I agree with this.

you mean the HAMAS government, that doesn't acknowledge Israel's right to exist? interesting!

So you think, attacking their supply for electricity and fresh water has been of more use?
Strange, I think that such actions anger them and probably bring even more rather moderate palestinians to sympathize with the terrorists cause.

I agree with you that anti israel propaganda by the state has to stop. Especially such things as schoolbooks showing only palestine without israel. But therefore make clear demands to the palestine governments and probably even pay for those schoolbooks.
(and at the same time, if it is true that schools for ultra orthodox jews use schoolbooks where you have maps of Israel which includes the westbank and the gaza strip as parts of israel, stop this practice, too )

Originally posted by Az

What about giving lots of money to the palestinian government (and perhaps to other muslim neighbors) for antiterrorist activities (of course with keeping a tight control on where the money flows ) and offering to aid them in every possible way.

lol! everyone knows that the palestinian authority, even when it had a fatah government, never seriously fought the terrorists, so that a "war amongst brothers" (civil war? ) won't occur. They have no problem shooting each other for paychecks, and other stuff, btw.

That´s why I said that you should keep tight control on the use of the money (and offer to support them with the assets in your hands) on the war on terrorism.
Make sure the money you invest really gets used to fight terrorist activity.

Originally posted by Az

Therefore not more using the stick, but rather the carrot to persuade them into showing the behavior you want.

And of course, stop all plans for enlarging the settlements within the Westbank or building new ones, or better still, abandon them like you did to the ones in Gaza.

Yeah, because look how well did that carrot in Gaza work....

You cannot expect for the terrorism to stiop completely just because you gave them the carrot. The change will occur rather slowly within years.
The terrorist organization (of course) don´t want peace between israel and palestine (as it would mean that the loose power over the people ), they also won´t cease to exists as soon as you give the palestines a carrot and won´t stop taking actions against Israel.
But it would give the moderate factions within the palestinians a boost if you don´t use terrorist activities as an excuse to attack facilities which don´tn have anything to do with said activities.

Also, as it is a war on propaganda, support counter propaganda, for example organizations by palestinians (or working within palestinian territory) which help to increase the living conditions within the palestinian territories, or supoort things like palestinian radio stations which broadcast a prgram which isn´t anti israel

[Az]

So you think, attacking their supply for electricity and fresh water has been of more use?
Strange, I think that such actions anger them and probably bring even more rather moderate palestinians to sympathize with the terrorists cause.

If they sympathise more with the terrorists cause after the terrorists provoke this, they're pretty dumb.

I agree with you that anti israel propaganda by the state has to stop. Especially such things as schoolbooks showing only palestine without israel. But therefore make clear demands to the palestine governments and probably even pay for those schoolbooks.

All this "anti-Israel propoganda" by books pales in comparison to the complete inaction against terrorists, and their support.

(and at the same time, if it is true that schools for ultra orthodox jews, use schoolbooks where you have maps of Israel which includes the westbank and the gaza striü as partts of israel, stop this practice, too )

Dude, When Israel controlled westbank and gaza, that's what the books showed. when the PA was created, it showed that on the map, as well. the maps show the defacto borders.

Btw, I wonder how many palestinian kids are actively educated for peace. I know I had to draw what is a fair partition of the land in my opinion in the 10th grade...

But it would give the moderate factions within the palestinians a boost if you don´t use terrorist activities as an excuse to attack facilities which don´tn have anything to do with said activities.

Who are those moderates you speak of? Seriously, I am looking for them, and I can't find them.

Also, as it is a war on propaganda, support counter propaganda, for example organizations by palestinians (or working within palestinian territory) which help to increase the living conditions within the palestinian territories, or supoort things like palestinian radio stations which broadcast a prgram which isn´t anti israel

you know what such people are called by palestinians - collaborators, traitors, etc. etc.

You cannot expect for the terrorism to stiop completely just because you gave them the carrot. The change will occur rather slowly within years.

umm, yes I can. Maybe they shouldn't expect shelling to stop completely. just over years...

[Sirotnikov]

So you think, attacking their supply for electricity and fresh water has been of more use?

It is a state-to-state military response meant to send a very clear signal.

Strange, I think that such actions anger them and probably bring even more rather moderate palestinians to sympathize with the terrorists cause.

Actually such actions bring many palestinians to realize that Hamas does them no good, and provocates Israel into a military response.

For the first time there is a significant backlash in the popular press and forums against Hamas actions.

The same is true for feelings against Hezbullah as well by the way. There's no one except Iran that is happy about it.

[Sirotnikov]

Also, as it is a war on propaganda, support counter propaganda,

Very difficult to do in a idealogically homogenous public.

Its not that we don't try. We merely suck

for example organizations by palestinians (or working within palestinian territory) which help to increase the living conditions within the palestinian territories, or supoort things like palestinian radio stations which broadcast a prgram which isn�t anti israel

There are several organizations which help increase living conditions:
1. Hamas (bad)
2. UNRWA (somewhat bad - not terrorist but vehemently anti-Israeli in politics)
3. UN / EU committes or what ever. They do not express political opinions and therefore can't be pro-Israeli propoganda. They are also often manned by anti-Israelis.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by notyoueither


When the United States of America was attacked, no I did not second-guess Bush in his response when he led an invasion of a country that was harbouring the source of the offence.

In fact, I was all for it. I think you mentioned that you were too.

perhaps. I just nope israel doesnt **** the bed on this. I dont know if we can hold the lebonese gov totaly responsible. its a confusnig time for sure.


i really respect ya nye, despite your opinions towars me

[Flip McWho]

If I was Israel I'd be training up special ops teams who infiltrate across the borders and leave nothing but bodies behind. Terrorist bodies not civilian.

[Az]

If I was Israel I'd be training up special ops teams who infiltrate across the borders and leave nothing but bodies behind. Terrorist bodies not civilian.

damn it, how didn't we think of that?!

[Flip McWho]

I'm aware you guys do, you just don't employ it as much as I'd expect you too.

It would also cause far less in the way of international outrage.

Tanks and heavy fighting causes outrage. Dead bodies and moaning terrorist organisations raise eyebrows.

[Flip McWho]

I'll expand, dead terrorist bodies. Tanks and heavy fighting causes collateral damage which causes outrage. Surgical strikes against terrorist organisations don't*




*though nothings perfect.

[Az]

problem is, special ops don't really operate that way, and contrary to popular belief, their ops get civilians killed as well...

[Flip McWho]

I'm kind of implying you train teams specifically for this type of job.

[Az]

and they do. However, intensive combat, which includes artillery exchange isn't the natural habitat of such operations.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

3. UN / EU committes or what ever. They do not express political opinions and therefore can't be pro-Israeli propoganda. They are also often manned by anti-Israelis.

uh huh thats why the US vetoes anything that comes up thats anti-israel in any way (just see yesterday's news)

you guys down there have such a distorted view of reality, its sickening. And i mean both sides.

[Flip McWho]

Yeah, see, intensive combat should be one of those things that only happen if a organised military force was attacking you.

Otherwise I've got nothing against you guys infiltrating team after team and killing a number of terrorists each time which would put a bigger strain on your intel guys I realise but yeah, the way to go in my opinion.