MLB - 2006 Season! Continued!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Arrian
Hate on Damon all you want. I'll still find it funny. I wonder if I could find some quotes from around the time he jumped from Oakland to Boston....

But.. but... we bought him first!

It's like complaining that Roger Clemens is a 'traitor'.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Nah - Clemens is no traitor, just an A-Rod type who always delivered when it didn't count.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I believe Yankee and Astros fans will disagree with that statement on the subject of Clemens

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I believe Yankee and Astros fans will disagree with that statement on the subject of Clemens

I don't care about his tenure elsewhere.

[Arrian]

You don't hear me whining about Clemens, by the way, do you? He "retired" and then went off to Houston and pitched his tail off. The Yanks didn't push him out the door Duquette-style, either. He just changed his mind. Waaaa. Not. His choice. Free agent, long-time mercenary... and first-ballot Hall of Famer.

-Arrian

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Arrian
You don't hear me whining about Clemens, by the way, do you? He "retired" and then went off to Houston and pitched his tail off. The Yanks didn't push him out the door Duquette-style, either. He just changed his mind. Waaaa. Not. His choice. Free agent, long-time mercenary... and first-ballot Hall of Famer.

-Arrian

As much as I agree with Sherman's take on Texas (though nothing else about the man), I'd have to say I can't argue with anyone getting out of New York to go there.

Besides, your "boss" just bought a few more pitchers, like always.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Arrian
You don't hear me whining about Clemens, by the way, do you? He "retired" and then went off to Houston and pitched his tail off. The Yanks didn't push him out the door Duquette-style, either. He just changed his mind. Waaaa. Not. His choice. Free agent, long-time mercenary... and first-ballot Hall of Famer.

-Arrian

Don't forget *******, dickhead, and one of the all time great pitchers (goes beyond merely a first ballot HoFer) .

[Arrian]

How about "bat-shard wielding lunatic" ? Does that work for you? I wonder, given that incident and some others, why you don't hear steroids in connection with Clemens more often.

"Merely" first-ballot HoFer? Yes, he's an all-time great. Top 5. EVER. I've seen decent arguments that he might be the best ever, period. Number 1.

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

Oh come on.

For one, ever hear of a guy named Nolan Ryan?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Not a pimple on Ryan's or Koufax's ass.

Sloww beat me to it. Must have been my dig on Texas that brought him to this thread.

[SlowwHand]

As a matter of fact, I did have a cold chill come over me.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


As much as I agree with Sherman's take on Texas (though nothing else about the man), I'd have to say I can't argue with anyone getting out of New York to go there.

Besides, your "boss" just bought a few more pitchers, like always.

This is why you and I can never had a reasonable baseball discussion.

Boston rotation (before being shredded by injury):

Shilling - acquired via trade, expensive contract was a factor
Beckett - acquired via trade, given pricey extension
Wakefield - ? Free agent a long time ago, right? Or was he a trade too? Honestly I don't remember
Clement - Free agent
Wells - Free agent

Bullpen:

Papelbon - farm system
Timlin - free agent (right?)
Orc (Tavarez) - free agent
Foulke - free agent
Seanez - free agent

others: Manny Delcarmen, Craig Hansen and one other guy whose name currently escapes me are farm guys. I dunno where Kyle Snyder came from. The lefty who won the 1-0 game a couple days ago I think is a farm guy.

Yankee rotation:

Moose - free agent
Wang - product of farm system
RJ - acquired via trade, expensive contract was a factor, given pricey extension
Chacon - acquired via trade
Wright - free agent
Pavano - free agent, DL now and forever

Bullpen:

Mariano - farm
Farnsworthless - free agent
Proctor - farm (dunno if he'd seen time in the majors when he was traded in the Ventura deal)
Villone - free agent
Myers - free agent
Sturtze - I actually don't remember... picked off of waivers? Free agent?

others: Karstens, Rasner, White (ugh), Bruney... farm or picked off of waivers/rule 5. Not free agents.

So let me see... one team "buys" its pitchers. The other doesn't?

Pot, meet kettle.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Oh come on.

For one, ever hear of a guy named Nolan Ryan?

You have got to be kidding me. Nolan Ryan, though a great pitcher, is not in Clemens' league. It's not even close, Sloww.

Ryan has this mystique about him because people loved his fastball (and the no-hitters, no doubt, which were great), but he's not nearly as good a pitcher as Roger Clemens.

Koufax is there in peak value, but Clemens has been doing it about twice as long as Koufax did. Obviously, things might have been different if sports medicine was then what it is now. We'll never know.

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

No hitters? Strike outs? Nolan is IT.

[Arrian]

Being a good pitcher is about a helluva lot more that strikeouts and no-hitters, Sloww.

Clemens is no slouch in the K department, either. But a pitcher's job is to prevent the other team from scoring. Clemens did this, relative to league average, better than Ryan. Ryan, you see, had a problem with something called "control."

He was a great pitcher, I repeat. But Clemens is better. Much better.

-Arrian