MLB - 2006 Season! Continued!

[Arrian]

Heh, First pitching matchup of the Yanks/Sox series:

Wang vs. Johnson.

Yes, I'm aware how childish it is, but that's amusing.

-Arrian

[MichaeltheGreat]

There's a New Fragrance in Town

Originally posted by Arrian
Yankees win, Red Sox lose

-Arrian

Not looking quite so hot now, is it...

Just for you:

There's a New Fragrance in Town

[Arrian]

Speaking of childish...

It's looking fine to me, friend. The Yanks are still up 1.5 games, and will likely depart Boston still in first (though I expect the Sox to win the series, probably 3-2). That suits me fine. Obviously losing to the O's is a generally annoying thing, but hey, this year it was the Sox who got swept by the Royals, which is infinitely worse.

We shall see how "Slappy McBluelips" handles this series. Of course, unless he bats 1.000, makes several game-saving defensive plays and personally takes down Shrek in a deathmatch brawl, he'll still be ridiculed by, well, pretty much everyone. *shrug*

-Arrian

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Arrian
Speaking of childish...

It's looking fine to me, friend. The Yanks are still up 1.5 games, and will likely depart Boston still in first (though I expect the Sox to win the series, probably 3-2). That suits me fine. Obviously losing to the O's is a generally annoying thing, but hey, this year it was the Sox who got swept by the Royals, which is infinitely worse.

The Royals are nowhere near as ugly as they were the first two months of the season, at least in KC. After a lovely 17-48 start, they were 24-25 in the games from that point through the sweep. And when your relievers are worn out, your main catcher is out, your 5 man rotation becomes 11, or was it 12 - only Dirty Harry drunk enough to see double knows for sure, then things can happen over a 3 day span.

All the self-promoting whining about the Yankees injuries is a joke compared to the way the Sox rotation and now 'Tek have been shredded much of the year. Even when Clement and Foulke were pitching, they were crap coming off of major injuries/surgery, and pitching only because their arms hadn't fallen off and they had a pulse.

We shall see how "Slappy McBluelips" handles this series. Of course, unless he bats 1.000, makes several game-saving defensive plays and personally takes down Shrek in a deathmatch brawl, he'll still be ridiculed by, well, pretty much everyone. *shrug*

-Arrian

For what he gets paid compared to what he delivers, he should do all that routinely.

[Arrian]

All the self-promoting whining about the Yankees injuries is a joke compared to the way the Sox rotation and now 'Tek have been shredded much of the year.

1. I don't subscribe to the "scrappy Yankees" theory.
2. Bull****.

The Yankees lost their corner outfielders for the season (or, at the very best, for all but 2 weeks of it), their (quite good) 2B for about 1 1/2 month, and their CF has been playing with a broken foot the whole year.

The Red Sox have lost:

- some David Wells starts. This is different from any other year how? This is David Wells, period.
- Matt Clement. This is a bad thing? He sucked anyway. Exactly what is wrong with him, anyway? Sounds like Pavano-itis to me.
- Foulke. He's been broken for some time (before this year, in other words). Nothing new hear. Do I get to count Pavano?
- Nixon, for what, a month? Depends on when he gets back. This pretty much happens every year, one way or another. Not insignificant, but not season-changing, either.
- Varitek for ~6-8 weeks (right?). Significant, no doubt, even if he was having a really bad year with the bat. Bordering on terrible. But "much of the season" is a bit of an overstatement, MtG.
- Coco Crisp for a couple of months. This was a pretty big deal, given that he is the starting CF, and he's having a bad year since coming back. In fact, this is, IMO, the most serious loss the Sox have sustained.

Neither teams injuries have been a joke. Both have suffered significant losses. So?

-Arrian

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Arrian


1. I don't subscribe to the "scrappy Yankees" theory.
2. Bull****.

For what they're getting paid, and the size of Steiny's petty cash box, you have an extra "S" in number 1.

The Yankees lost their corner outfielders for the season (or, at the very best, for all but 2 weeks of it), their (quite good) 2B for about 1 1/2 month, and their CF has been playing with a broken foot the whole year.

So why did Cash Man wait until the last minute to pull the trigger on a deal? It's not like Sheffield is some youngster with years to play - hasn't any of that money gone to player development? With Demon's arm and famed mobility in center, how much of a difference has that foot been, anyway?

The Red Sox have lost:

- some David Wells starts. This is different from any other year how? This is David Wells, period.

Wells has made 6 starts this year. Compared to 30 or more in every year from 1996 to 2005, except for the 2001 season.

- Matt Clement. This is a bad thing? He sucked anyway. Exactly what is wrong with him, anyway? Sounds like Pavano-itis to me.

When you're reaching into AA for starters, or taking KC castoffs, then it's a bad thing. Clement won more games last year (13) than he has started this year (12) He's also made 30 or more starts every year in his career, and his career won-lost record and ERA aren't helped by playing for mostly suck-ass teams in his career. Pavano's only made 30 starts in his last two years in Florida, so Clement's not yet a case for Pavano-itis. Just shows that Cash Man's stupider than Epstein when it comes to pitching, or maybe the Boss just has money to burn.

- Foulke. He's been broken for some time (before this year, in other words). Nothing new hear. Do I get to count Pavano?

Foulke came unglued last year. Extended time on the DL last year and surgery was supposed to fix things. Didn't happen. Foulke's career numbers up to last year don't put him near Pavano-itis, either. You can mention one of the dumbest all-time "best team money can buy" moves again, but I think your best comparison there would be Kevin Brown, not anyone on the Sox side of things.

BTW, you forgot Wakefield on your list - seven missed starts and counting. I'll take injured corner outfielders any day over three out of five in the starting rotation.

- Nixon, for what, a month? Depends on when he gets back. This pretty much happens every year, one way or another. Not insignificant, but not season-changing, either.

I'm not worried about Nixon, despite Pain Ya's unique defense. And Pain Ya was out for surgery for several weeks.

- Varitek for ~6-8 weeks (right?). Significant, no doubt, even if he was having a really bad year with the bat. Bordering on terrible. But "much of the season" is a bit of an overstatement, MtG.

Varitek could hit like Mirabelli - most of his value is still in how he works the pitchers. By most of the season, I'm referring to the state of the Sox battery as a whole - when you have to resort to Jason Johnson as a regular starter, life is pretty sad. Then throw in Foulke and an overworked Timlin (more appearances in regular and post season play from '03 to date than anyone in either league, plus the wasted wear of the WBC this spring),

- Coco Crisp for a couple of months. This was a pretty big deal, given that he is the starting CF, and he's having a bad year since coming back. In fact, this is, IMO, the most serious loss the Sox have sustained.

Crisp compared to one pitcher, maybe, but not compared to the aggregate effects of all the pitching injuries.

Neither teams injuries have been a joke. Both have suffered significant losses. So?

-Arrian

So, it's laughable how the MFY-sycophant sports press has kept slobbering on itself about how much of a miracle it was that the Yankees were only 3 back with all their injuries, blah, blah, and now it's the Sox turn, blah, blah.

[snoopy369]

I love it when yankees and red sox fans complain about the biases of the Eastern Seaboard Poser Network et al ...

I think the Yanks and the Red Sox each play ten games on ESPN for each game the WORLD CHAMPION CHICAGO WHITE SOX play on it None of the Tigers/White Sox games were televised on ESPN last week, and this week only one is ... out of seven games between the two teams with the best records in the league? Stop complaining, both of you ... it's a miracle anyone CARES about either of your teams, who exist for no purpose other than to prove that baseball needs a salary cap, and even with those large piles of money they can't beat the real Sox ...

[Arrian]

Oh please. The White Sox win one world series and suddenly they're all that? They've been ****e for a long time, their fan base is tiny compared to the Red Sox and/or Yankees, and frankly, why do you care what game ESPN shows? The ESPN announcers are friggin' AWFUL.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Michael,

For every sad, tired whine about the payroll you make, I can toss it right back at you. NEWSFLASH: the Red Sox are not poor. They are, in fact, big spenders. That they spend less than the Yankees does not impress me. They spend ~$130 million. That's plenty to avoid "scraping AA for starters." Or not, since the Yankees have been doing similar stuff with their pitching.

When the Yankees are forced to run scrubs out there to start games, this is evidence of poor planning or "hahahha you spend money badly!" When the Red Sox do it, it's "the poor, scrappy Sox, oh gosh look what hardship they go through." Like I said above... BULL****.

If you were a Twins fan, you would get no arguement from me. But your whining about the Yankees payroll is total hypocrisy.

And yes, now it's the Sox turn. Like I said, both teams have had injuries. Both teams have plugged their holes both from within and without. Both teams piss everyone else off with how much they spend.

You have met the enemy, beaten him and BECOME HIM. Don't like it? Cry me a ****ing river.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Ballgame. 12-4.

Wang struggled, but managed to dance through the raindrops. His sinker clearly wasn't working very well, because he gave up a bunch of doubles, and many of the outs were liners or fly balls. Still, all in all, 6IP, 3ER up at Fenway ain't half bad.

For a while it looked like Johnson was managing the same high-wire act. But then he imploded, and the Sox bullpen followed suit.

The outcome was rather likely, given the pitching matchup. A similar one is slated for tonight: a promising young pitcher vs. a piece of utter garbage.

Points of light for the Sox:

- that Hinske pickup sure looks good. He OWNS Wang.
- from what I could tell from "watching" the game online, the Sox just didn't get much luck in this game. They hit the ball hard, and if a few more of 'em fall in, things might've been different.
- the Yankees did have to use a few of their good relievers in this game (Myers, Proctor).
- it's just one game.

Have a good weekend, all. I'm out.

-Arrian

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Arrian
Michael,

For every sad, tired whine about the payroll you make, I can toss it right back at you. NEWSFLASH: the Red Sox are not poor. They are, in fact, big spenders. That they spend less than the Yankees does not impress me. They spend ~$130 million.

Hey, only 76 so less than the Boss. Who always manages to puff up those opening day numbers with something like the Abreu deal. And how far does that go in October?

That's plenty to avoid "scraping AA for starters." Or not, since the Yankees have been doing similar stuff with their pitching.

Well, unless you intend to carry seven major league more-or-less hopefully capable starters on your payroll, but hey - only Steiny has that kind of disposable income.
Like the 16+ million that Abreu and Lidle add.

When the Yankees are forced to run scrubs out there to start games, this is evidence of poor planning or "hahahha you spend money badly!"

I guess the extra 80 million at the start of the year, plus the inevitable mid-season check writing that's such a joke that Steiny even starred in a commercial about it, doesn't make a difference, right?

When the Red Sox do it, it's "the poor, scrappy Sox, oh gosh look what hardship they go through." Like I said above... BULL****.

No, it's the shut the **** up about "the poor battered Yankees only being three out of first" and the "now it's the Red Sox turn to deal with injuries" tripe coming from the sports press sycophants who are all trying to climb up Steiny's Hiney.

But your whining about the Yankees payroll is total hypocrisy.

Now that's a steaming pile of bull**** that would overflow Yankee stadium. (Make it look better, and make the bathrooms smell better, too.) Look at Steiny's luxury tax bills each of the last three years and this year, and look at the Sox's luxury tax hit. There's no friggin' comparison of the payrolls, especially when 18+ of the Sox 120 million is from a contract (Manny's) inherited from prior ownership. If you factor in the luxury tax hits, the Yankee's payroll is over 100 million greater than the Sox, and nearly double if you factor in the inevitable mid-season purchases. Since the beginning of the '03 season, Steiny has thrown an extra third of a billion plus into player payroll than has the Sox, and for what? A 41 and 41 head to head record and one less world series ring?

Sox fans hypocritical about NY's bloated payroll and game-distorting spending because our team spends barely over half to actually attempt to compete. Unlike, say, the Marlins, who've perfected a business model in which nobody has to show up for a single game, and they'll make a profit off of the TV splits and revenue sharing?

And yes, now it's the Sox turn. Like I said, both teams have had injuries.

It's been the Sox turn all year. 41 lost starts by your regular starting rotation this many games into the year ain't peanuts.

Both teams piss everyone else off with how much they spend.

Naah, that's still pretty much the exclusive province of the MFY.

You have met the enemy, beaten him and BECOME HIM. Don't like it? Cry me a ****ing river.

Naah - that was Judas "I could never play for the Yankees" and "There's more than money at stake" Demon. And except for the charity work he still does in Boston, he can go piss up a rope. With that haircut, he looks like another freaking New York metrosexual in pinstripes.

[Arrian]

@ MtG.

I understand you can't actually be rational about this. So I'll just move on. Thanks for your efforts, though... the logical gymnastics were fun to watch!

-Arrian

p.s. Why am I still here? Because the system my wife supports has been down since 10am and they can't seem to fix it. Blah.

[MichaeltheGreat]

I guess "rational" in this discussion should apparently be defined as "accept that God smiles upon George the Felon, and that the Yankees have a divine right to buy a team they think is entitled to go 162-0 every season."

Yep, having double the effective payroll expenditure (slasries plus luxury tax) of any other team is perfectly cool, and anyone who points that out or dares criticize is a hypocrite if their team spends close to half that much.

Have a good one.

Yankees SUCK

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Arrian
and frankly, why do you care what game ESPN shows?

because not everyone can plunk down the cash for the various mlb/sports packages and ESPN/national broadcasts are the only way they can watch baseball?

and some people want to watch baseball other than the yankees/red sox. 1 game a series is fine, but 2 over a weekend (and one on fox) when espn has drastically cut back on the other games they broadcast?

its really sad that they believe the little league ws is worth more ratings than a twins/white sox game, which I frankly think will be a far more interesting series this weekend to watch than the tired y/rs hypefest.

[Arrian]

Asleep,

Ok, I can undertand that. I'm lucky in that I live close enough to NY that I get YES (and NESN, for that matter), so I don't need ESPN or an expensive baseball package to see my team. ESPN's broadcasts suck, which is what I meant.

Michael,

Want to cry some more about the Yankees payroll? Go ahead, maybe it'll be cathardic.

I'm not getting into the payroll issue seriously, for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, it's very clear to me that you have no interest in discussing it rationally & fairly. You're a pissed-off Red Sox fan venting frustration, which given recent events is understandable. Second, I've had this discussion, at length, here at 'poly already. Suffice it to say I'd be fine with a salary cap as *part* of a restructuring of the finances of the game. But it's more complicated that just that and the other matters I feel really need to be addressed aren't going to be touched by the owners with a 10 foot pole. So the system is what it is. If you want to root for an underdog team, however, you've got the wrong one. Go root for the Twins, the As, or heck the Royals. But as a fan of the #2 team by payroll out of 30, shut the **** up about the unfairness of it all already.

-Arrian