MLB - 2006 Season! Continued!

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Hell, he's far better than any 2B outside of Chase Utley.

Good - I can stay out of this argument.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Remember Soriano has played in RFK. That place is Hell for hitters. He's matured as a hitter, he is taking walks and definately shows more patience at the plate. Love to get him for the Mets, but I think the Yanks would be foolish not to gauge his interest at least. If they are that concerned about his defense make him a DH.

[Arrian]

EQA considers park factor, Imran.

Giambi is the DH, and frankly Matsui could use some time there next year as well.

The only way I could see the Yanks using Sori is to have Matsui learn 1B, and playing Sori in LF.

-Arrian

p.s. and countering the RFK factor is the JV league factor

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Stuie

Good - I can stay out of this argument.

Indeed. Best 2B in the majors, end of story.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Oh, I see where the discrepancy lies, Imran...

the .301 for Cano is "adjusted for all time" which I don't fully understand. It is .293 w/o the all time adjustment.

Likewise, Sori is adjusted downward from .304 (this year) to .300 (all time).

So it's either .304 to .293 or .301 to .300.

Either way, the difference is not that much, and with Cano's superior fielding and youth, I cannot understand why someone would prefer Soriano.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Arrian
EQA considers park factor, Imran.

So does Win Shares (as well as considering fielding and baserunning - as well as league factors).

So it's either .304 to .293 or .301 to .300.

Either way, the difference is not that much, and with Cano's superior fielding and youth, I cannot understand why someone would prefer Soriano.

.304 to .293 is a decent value. Considering average ball player is at .260 and a 'good' ballplayer is at .300, 10 points is a pretty decent sized value there.

Soriano's offense makes up for the fielding difference, and as for youth, when Soriano is on the downslope, Cano can take over .

[Arrian]

Again, the Win Shares difference is surely effected by the time Cano missed.

Cano is a starter, dude. Not even the Yankees would take a player of his caliber and use him as a backup, ffs.

Again, he's the best 2B in the AL and is 23 years old. He's a keeper, they know it, and they're not going to do something stupid just to please a bored Mets fan.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, he's the best 2B in the AL, but you have at least 4 2B in the NL better than he is. It's more a factor of the AL not being particularly deep in the 2B position. And when did I say they would do something stupid? It would be a GOOD MOVE! Soriano is one of the best players in the game and when free agency hits, he'll be paid like it (I guess you'll see his value when you see the dollar signs attached to his name).

And, of course Runs Created/Game does take into account time off and Soriano has 7.1 RC/G while Cano has 6.5 RC/G, which is a substantial margin (a little over 1 run created more for every 2 games).

[Arrian]

No, it would be stupid.

They would have to give Sori a 3 year or longer deal (bad) and pay him a bunch of dough (which matters, even to the Yanks, albeit less than any other team).

I'm aware of Sori's value, dollar signs or no. But the Yanks have a player of similar caliber who is 8 years younger. Sori was slightly better this year. Going forward, I know who I'd prefer, and I'm pretty sure the Yankee organization agrees with me.

-Arrian

p.s. I watched Sori come up with the Yanks, develop, and move on. Did you notice his 2005 season, btw? In a hitter's park no less. Then he has a big year in his walk year... hmm. Buyer BEWARE.

p.p.s. Who are the 4 second basemen in the NL who are better? Utley, check. Who else?

[Arrian]

Chase Utley 739 PAs, .309/.379/.527 15 SB, 4 CS

Robinson Cano 508 PAs .342/.365/.525 5 SB, 2 CS

Ray Durham 555 PAs .293/.360/.538 7 SB, 2 CS

Dan Uggla 683 PAs .282/.339/.480 6 SB, 6 CS

Jeff Kent 473 PAs .292/.385/.477 1 SB, 2 CS

Those are the top 5 2B according to VORP. Brian Roberts, of the AL, is 6th.

At least 4 2B in the NL better than Cano? Yeah, ok Imran. That's credible.

Utley and maybe Durham. Kent is in the ballpark, but I'd give Robbie a slight edge (Kent gets points from me for the better OBP, though).

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

Then sign him to a one year deal . The fact is that Soriano did not like playing in Texas. Those were the worst years of his career, by far. He regressed there from his NY yers. After getting out of there, he's gone crazy in Washington.

It'd be a smart deal. Sign him to a short contract (3 years would be ok) and have Cano around to play 2B half of the time (while Soriano DHs and Giambi plays 1B) and spelling Jeter and Giambi other times. When Soriano declines, move Cano full time in 2B.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Arrian
Chase Utley 739 PAs, .309/.379/.527 15 SB, 4 CS

Robinson Cano 508 PAs .342/.365/.525 5 SB, 2 CS

Ray Durham 555 PAs .293/.360/.538 7 SB, 2 CS

Dan Uggla 683 PAs .282/.339/.480 6 SB, 6 CS

Jeff Kent 473 PAs .292/.385/.477 1 SB, 2 CS

Those are the top 5 2B according to VORP. Brian Roberts, of the AL, is 6th.

At least 4 2B in the NL better than Cano? Yeah, ok Imran. That's credible.

-Arrian

Uggla, Durham, and Orlando Hudson (great defensive stats). You may say that Uggla and Durham have higher PAs and you'd be right, but Uggla's far greater PA means that he doesn't get hit by the injury bug. Further more his RC/G is equal to Cano's and so is his fielding. Durham plays in a very difficult park in San Fran and is able to put up very very good numbers. Durham's RC/G is better than even Utley's!! Hudson is a worse batter, but a far better fielder.

[Arrian]

You're going to stunt the development of a upcoming star like Cano (dispute that if you will, but the Yanks think he is and I agree) by cutting his playing time in half for Soriano?

Oy. No thanks. The only way I'd do it is to sign Sori for LF, have Giambi and Matsui as the 1B/DH combo.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Arrian
You're going to stunt the development of a upcoming star like Cano (dispute that if you will, but the Yanks think he is and I agree) by cutting his playing time in half for Soriano?

Oy. No thanks. The only way I'd do it is to sign Sori for LF, have Giambi and Matsui as the 1B/DH combo.

-Arrian

Why would you stunt his development? He'd play the same time as he is, but just all around the diamond instead of just at 2B. Like Frank Catalanotto did a few years back.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Uggla, Durham, and Orlando Hudson (great defensive stats). You may say that Uggla and Durham have higher PAs and you'd be right, but Uggla's far greater PA means that he doesn't get hit by the injury bug. Further more his RC/G is equal to Cano's and so is his fielding. Durham plays in a very difficult park in San Fran and is able to put up very very good numbers. Durham's RC/G is better than even Utley's!! Hudson is a worse batter, but a far better fielder.

You're going to bring the O-Dog at me?

Hudson is a great defender. But only a few posts ago you asserted that Cano's superior defense (vis a vis Soriano) didn't close a gap in the hitting department. Cano out-hits Hudson by a lot... more than Sori outhits Cano.

Cano had one injury, Imran. I think it's a tad early to dock him as an injury prone player. Ditto in the reverse for Uggla, a rookie. Uggla might develop and become a better player. Or he might get hurt next year. We don't know. What we know is what he did this year. Runs created per game equal to Cano? How does that work when Cano has the higher average, OBP and SLG? That strikes me as impossible.

Durham had a great year, certainly. How old is he, though? And I mentioned him. He and Utley out-played Cano this year. That's two. I dispute Uggla and laugh at Hudson (not really laugh at him - Hudson's a good player, but he's not as good as Cano).

-Arrian