Breaking: Ben Roethlisberger in motorcycle accident... no helmet?

[Arrian]

Sloww,

It really wouldn't surprise me if the driver of the car was at fault here. That doesn't change what I'm saying.

Example:

A person decides to walk home through a crime-ridden slum at 3am. They get mugged.

Is it their fault they got mugged? No.
Did they deserve to get mugged? Certainly not.
Was their decision to walk home through a slum at 3am smart? No.

edit: should making the slum less slummy and crime-ridden be a priority? Yes.

And that's all I'm saying. Of COURSE it's all about people being stupid... that's true for lots of stuff.

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Who said it was the motorcyclists' fault?

It's a simple statement about risks. If you ride a motorcycle you are taking your life in your hands. Motorcycles are less visible, motorcyclists take certain risks which people in cars can't take (splitting lanes, etc), and when a motorcyclist is struck by another vehicle or skids out then the motorcyclist is far more likely to die than if he'd been in a car. Those three factors combine to make motorcycle riding a fairly dangerous hobby.

Then correct the problem, son't just say it's more likeluy. You sit in your house, where most accidents occur, what then? Outlaw houses?

Put the blame where it belongs. Is that so difficult?

Another thing KH, don't ever call me a silly little man to my face. We clear on that?

[DanS]

People are the problem

I agree with this. Which is why we should have cars drive themselves. It would make motorcycles much less dangerous, even if they were driven by human beings.

[Arrian]

Why has this become about blame? Oy.

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

Because Asher and KH decided to. Simple. Read up.

[Ming]

Sigh... I see some real PERSONAL crap being thrown around in this thread... Enough!

Discuss the topic and take your cat fights to some other site...

[yin26]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
as a car driver

Well, I'm more than a car driver. I can speak from both sides of the issue. A good motorcycle rider is ALWAYS aware of the cars' blind spots, for example. Again, if there IS a crash, there's no question you'd rather be in a car. I just think it's too easy to assume that the motorcycle by default is going to be in more crashes. In this case, I think the skill level and attitude of the rider plays a huge part in the equation that statistics and non-rider views might make plain.

EDIT: And back to that safety trainer I quoted -- the guy has 100,000 miles logged in on his bike with no crashes. This can't be luck. It must have to do with his focus on safety. Again, more often than not, a fatal motorcycle crash has more to do with the rider than the machine. That said, things like getting hit from behind at a light suddenly become life-threatening on a motorcycle than in a car. You might be surprised to know, therefore, when I'm stopped, I always watch the car coming up from behind me so I can ditch out if needed. Those are things you usually don't think about in a car but MUST if you care to live long and ride.

[Tuberski]

Turns out he doesn't even have a license to roide a motorcycle, according to ESPN.

ACK!

[Arrian]

... therefore, when I'm stopped, I always watch the car coming up from behind me so I can ditch out if needed.

Smart of you. Of course, people in general aren't all that smart. Cars do a better job of protecting people from their own stupidity and the stupidity of others.

That doesn't mean we should ban motorcycles.

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

the guy has 100,000 miles logged in on his bike with no crashes

So? My father has 400 000 miles on various automobiles with no crashes.

As I said before, an extremely safe motorcycle rider just might have less accidents than the average car driver (per vehicle mile). But the fatality rate for the motorcyclist is still going to be higher. In comparison to the car driver he's practically naked when an accident does come along.

[yin26]

Yes, conceded. So I guess we agree?

[Arrian]

Looks like it.

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

I'm just going to call you an assmunch on general principles...

[yin26]

Originally posted by Arrian
Smart of you. Of course, people in general aren't all that smart. Cars do a better job of protecting people from their own stupidity and the stupidity of others.

That doesn't mean we should ban motorcycles.

-Arrian

That's right. I do think it crazy, though, how easily people can get on a bike without proper training. Then again, if people want to kill themselves, we should leave that time-honored option fully available.

[Lorizael]

What. What. Did a discussion just end peaceably on Apolyton? No, this can't be so.

Yin... you're a stupid head for riding a bike!