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The god of the old testament has . . . . issues

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  • #166
    Actually, didn't the Pharoah give up after every plague? Then God would "stiffen his heart" so that he wouldn't let them go and God would get to show off more power.

    For I have hardened his heart … in order that I may display these My signs among them, and that you may recount in the hearing of your sons and your sons' sons how I made a mockery of the Egyptians and how I displayed My signs among them—in order that you may know I am the Lord.
    I never know their names, But i smile just the same
    New faces...Strange places,
    Most everything i see, Becomes a blur to me
    -Grandaddy, "The Final Push to the Sum"

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    • #167
      Yes. Pharoah didn't have much free will there, did he? God wanted to make a point/show off, so he "hardened Pharoah's heart" over and over.

      Nice.

      -Arrian
      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

      Comment

      • #168
        Figure of speech.

        JM
        Jon Miller-
        I AM.CANADIAN
        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

        Comment

        • #169
          What do you mean? I think it's pretty clear that God specifically states that he is intervening to push Pharaoh into making idiotic choices so he can then publically smack him down over and over, thus demonstrating his power.

          -Arrian
          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

          Comment

          • #170
            You also cannot accurately claim "figure of speech" with a bible that has been translated and retranslated and mistranslated so many times.
            Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
            "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

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            • #171
              mistranslated??? not much in the last 1900 years..

              JM
              Jon Miller-
              I AM.CANADIAN
              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

              Comment

              • #172
                It is true that at every translation that people add some interpretation. I wish I had the time to learn Hebrew and Armaic and Greek and Latin.

                JM
                Jon Miller-
                I AM.CANADIAN
                GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                Comment

                • #173
                  Okay. Purposefully translated differently because the people translating it didn't like whatever message was originally in there.
                  Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                  "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

                  Comment

                  • #174
                    Originally posted by Arrian
                    What do you mean? I think it's pretty clear that God specifically states that he is intervening to push Pharaoh into making idiotic choices so he can then publically smack him down over and over, thus demonstrating his power.

                    -Arrian
                    Where does God write anything?

                    The OT and NT are written by people interpreting life arround them (and their views of Gods activities). While it is the book that contains what God wants us to hear, it isn't written from Gods prospective (but rather, from man's).

                    Jon Miller
                    Jon Miller-
                    I AM.CANADIAN
                    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                    Comment

                    • #175
                      The OT and NT are written by people...
                      On that you and I agree. It was my understanding, however, that Christian dogma is that it's the Word of God.

                      While it is the book that contains what God wants us to hear, it isn't written from Gods prospective (but rather, from man's).
                      Applying this to the discussion we're having about the Plagues yields what, exactly? That God's actions/intentions were misintrepreted or misrepresented by whomever wrote that part?

                      -Arrian
                      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                      Comment

                      • #176
                        So the Bible is worthless? Good to know. We can all grab history books and figure out how God intervened.

                        Although I do find it funny that the writers of this passage wrote it this way deliberately. What point does it make to have your God change somebody's mind so that your God can show off some more? Why not just have the Pharoah be an obstinate ***** who doesn't care about the plagues or his people? Then God can smite the fool and everybody loves him for it.
                        I never know their names, But i smile just the same
                        New faces...Strange places,
                        Most everything i see, Becomes a blur to me
                        -Grandaddy, "The Final Push to the Sum"

                        Comment

                        • #177
                          That is what I am suggesting. Or that "God hardened his heart" might mean (to someone who thought that everything came from God) that God caused him (Pharoah) to rebel.

                          Nowhere do I remember God saying "I caused Pharoah's heart to harden so that you would be amazed by My miracles"

                          And I do beleive that the Bible is the Word of God, but it is also fact that it is written by people. And people don't understand everything (this is also a Christian fact, take a look at Daniel and Revelations for the most extreme examples).

                          Jon Miller
                          Jon Miller-
                          I AM.CANADIAN
                          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                          Comment

                          • #178
                            He really shouldn't have just said that. It renders this discussion moot and essentially eliminates the bible as a discussion piece for christian theology, which leaves us with... uh... um...
                            Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                            "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

                            Comment

                            • #179
                              Originally posted by mactbone
                              So the Bible is worthless? Good to know. We can all grab history books and figure out how God intervened.

                              Although I do find it funny that the writers of this passage wrote it this way deliberately. What point does it make to have your God change somebody's mind so that your God can show off some more? Why not just have the Pharoah be an obstinate ***** who doesn't care about the plagues or his people? Then God can smite the fool and everybody loves him for it.
                              No, the Bible is not worthless. It is the most worthwhile Book.

                              It is just that it was written from the prospective of humans. If it was written from the prospective of God, we probably couldn't understand it.

                              Jon Miller
                              Jon Miller-
                              I AM.CANADIAN
                              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                              Comment

                              • #180
                                Talk about a viewpoint that allows you to interpret the Bible in any manner you want.
                                "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
                                "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
                                "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

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