The god of the old testament has . . . . issues

[aneeshm]

I've just started reading the Old Testament to gain an insight into Christianity , and I'm a bit repulsed . God seems to have some psychological problem I can only describe as paranoia .

Why is he so curelly violent ? And why is he so impotent in getting even his chosen people to follow his dictates , even though he is supposed to have omnipotence ( no matter how many times he punishes the Israelites , they seem to inevitably return to Baal-worship ) ? And why is he so egostically concerned about his name not being insulted or even doubted ? And why does he hate worshippers of other gods so much ?

[Proteus_MST]

He punishes them because he loves them so much, why else?

[molly bloom]

Kali of course is evidently P.M.T. personified.

And Siva always paid for his breakages too....


(Just kidding aneeshm- I hold no brief for any religion)

[_BuRjaCi_]

Re: The god of the old testament has . . . . issues

Originally posted by aneeshm
I've just started reading the Old Testament to gain an insight into Christianity , and I'm a bit repulsed . God seems to have some psychological problem I can only describe as paranoia .

Why is he so curelly violent ? And why is he so impotent in getting even his chosen people to follow his dictates , even though he is supposed to have omnipotence ( no matter how many times he punishes the Israelites , they seem to inevitably return to Baal-worship ) ? And why is he so egostically concerned about his name not being insulted or even doubted ? And why does he hate worshippers of other gods so much ?

That's the old testament man, look at the date , it was written by people who didn't yet have a well worked out concept of monoteism (you will find numerus references to the existence of multiple gods) and a loving omnipotent god (not saying that we do). Jahve was a sort of a jelus patron god of the israelites but not the only God (at least in the early part of the old t.).

And why dosen't he like the worship of other Gods, when he "becomes" (when it is explicetly stated) the only God? Well, let's just say its called monotheism for a reason...

Alsow it is relativley early established that he gave man free will... You can't just flick your finger and have everyone belive in you and still claim to leave them free will.

Concerned by having his name insulted? Well, you should know that religion dosen't occur in a vacum. I mean look at the Greek (especialy Zeus, do you recognize an old white bearded omniputent figure there?) and Mesopotamian gods; they behaved like humans and lets just say that the old testament god still has a lot of that in him.

[Arrian]

The god of the old testament is a jealous, nasty, vindictive *******. He's psychotic. So are many of the human characters.

Hey, created in his image, right?

-Arrian

[Last Conformist]

The interesting thing is why Yahweh's cult was so intolerant of other cults. The followers of other ancient mid-east gods were frequently as bloodthirstily cruel as any Yahwist, but they rarely if ever objected to the mere existence of other cults.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
The interesting thing is why Yahweh's cult was so intolerant of other cults.

They had better music and temple prostitutes.


Shiva me lingams, me hearties!

[Fake Boris]

To get answers to your questions, your best bet would be to read Christian theologians.

Spinoza himself isn't one, but he offers a good explanation in his Theologico-Political Treatise.

[The diplomat]

Re: The god of the old testament has . . . . issues

Originally posted by aneeshm
Why is he so curelly violent ?

We get angry when we see social injuctice around us, don't we? Imagine how the creator of the universe would feel seeing his creation murdering, raping, oppressing ethnic groups, etc...

The fact is that sometimes violence is the only way to stop injustice.

And why is he so impotent in getting even his chosen people to follow his dictates , even though he is supposed to have omnipotence ( no matter how many times he punishes the Israelites , they seem to inevitably return to Baal-worship )?

Because while God has the power to force us to live His way, He also gives us free will. So, God wants us to live His way but He will not force us.

And why is he so egostically concerned about his name not being insulted or even doubted ? And why does he hate worshippers of other gods so much ?

God simply wants people to recognize the fact that He is the only God and creator of the universe. If you knew that you were the only true God and you saw humans praying to wooden idols, wouldn't you want them to stop praying to inanimate objects and turn to you, the true God?

Also, remember that these other religions engaged in horrific practices like infant sacrifices. So, people were killing their babies to some piece of wood that they thought would bring them a good crop. Doesn't it make sense that God would want people to turn away from such horrific and false practices?

[Lorizael]

How can violence be the only solution when you're omnipotent? Isn't your free will somewhat stifled if you're being drowned/burned/pelted with frogs?

[Kontiki]

Re: Re: The god of the old testament has . . . . issues

Do you really not see how this:

Because while God has the power to force us to live His way, He also gives us free will. So, God wants us to live His way but He will not force us.

contradicts this:

We get angry when we see social injuctice around us, don't we? Imagine how the creator of the universe would feel seeing his creation murdering, raping, oppressing ethnic groups, etc...

...

The fact is that sometimes violence is the only way to stop injustice.

...

God simply wants people to recognize the fact that He is the only God and creator of the universe. If you knew that you were the only true God and you saw humans praying to wooden idols, wouldn't you want them to stop praying to inanimate objects and turn to you, the true God?

Also, remember that these other religions engaged in horrific practices like infant sacrifices. So, people were killing their babies to some piece of wood that they thought would bring them a good crop. Doesn't it make sense that God would want people to turn away from such horrific and false practices?

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Lorizael
How can violence be the only solution when you're omnipotent? Isn't your free will somewhat stifled if you're being drowned/burned/pelted with frogs?

What do you propose as an alternative? You mention frogs, so let's take the situation with Moses and the Hebrews in Egypt. God talked to Moses. Moses, speaking for God, asked Pharaoh to please let the Hebrews free. Moses says no. Moses, acting with God's power, performs signs to impress Pharaoh. He is not impressed. Simply asking Pharaoh "pretty, please" wasn't going to work because Pharaoh had a strong economic interests in keeping the Hebrews as slaves.

True, God could have just instantly transported all the Hebrews directly to the Promised Land but then neither Pharaoh nor the Hebrews would have learned the important lessons that they needed to learn.

Just as, just instantly giving a kid a college degree is not going to help the kid any because the kid needs to experience college and learn things. Likewise, if you want to bring a peoples to a land and make them a new nation, you have to teach them how to be a nation first. Just instantly making them a free nation is not going to do them any service.

[Geronimo]

If you can manage it, read the bible cover to cover. not only will you gain insight on Christianity but you will actually have a better understanding of the bible than many christians who have only read it piecemeal and had it delivered to them in sermons complete with a prepackaged spin on everything in it. After that I'd read through the koran as well (if you haven't already).


I have not read any of the vedas or any of the other texts that were important to Hinduism. Do you think I would gain any insight into modern Hinduism by reading those? I suppose it would be my agnostic duty to add those to my list of religious texts I've read if they still have religious relevance.

[Lorizael]

Okay then, let's stick with the Exodus. How is killing the first born son of every Egyptian, whether they were involved in slavery or not, whether they supported it or not, more morally justifiable than sacrificing your son to a piece of wood?

Nowadays, wouldn't we call such an act... terrorism?

[The diplomat]

Re: Re: Re: The god of the old testament has . . . . issues

Originally posted by Kontiki
Do you really not see how this:

contradicts this:

Are you saying that God does not have the right to punish evil because He gave us the free will to do evil? God did not make us do evil. Free will means that we are responsible for our actions. And since we are responsible for our actions, we deserve the consequences when we do evil.

Should we not punish criminals because they had the free will to commit the crime?