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Originally posted by DaShi
Humans don't come with instruction manuals.
Of course they do,
but they aren´t allowed to read them.
And of course, the instruction manuals for female humans are much longer than those for male humans
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve." Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"
There are two key concepts you should know while reading the Old Testament.
1. Free will
2. God's plan for salvation
1. Free will deals with the free choise humans have to be their own god, and decide over good and evil themselves, or to serve God as their lord and let him decide over good and evil.
2. b/c of the incapability of humanity to be gods and rule over good and evil there's the penalty for sinning. God has his plan for salvation, which is described in the Bible. This deals with the people of Isreal in the Old Testament and gets it's fullfililng in Jesus in the New Testament and it's end in the apocalypse which is forsaid in the New Testament.
God intervenes on earth to establish his plan. He uses violence and force if nessecary. (don't look at this with your modern humanistic western eyes.)
He sets the Jews free multiple times and he tells them to destroy those people who'll be a threat for Israel in the future. These people are punished for their sins.
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Job is definately what killed the ME religions for me.
May I ask why? While Job's "solution" to theodicy sucks, it's certainly not the most offensive part of the Wholly Babble ...
Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?
It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok
The Book of Job is offensive to me, because Job is already a good servent of God. Then God and Satan have some kind of 'my immortal dick is bigger than your immortal dick' contest and Job gets all the suffering for it. We're suppose to learn some leason about how great God is and how not to judge him from it.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
It's a lesson that all people do not serve God because of the wealth they'll receive. It's a lesson that all the wealth you got can be taken from you. (and it WILL be taken from you since we'll all die in the end)
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
Originally posted by CyberShy
It's a lesson that all people do not serve God because of the wealth they'll receive. It's a lesson that all the wealth you got can be taken from you. (and it WILL be taken from you since we'll all die in the end)
It could also be a lesson that you could be living your life in perfect accordance with God's laws and he will use you to teach everyone a lesson.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
It shows you that living a rightious live (there were no laws yet) doesn't mean that your life will be perfect on earth. We have decided to rule our own life, to be our own gods. Therefor God gives satan the freedom to do whatever he wants with Job. Though God limits satan to not let him take Jobs life.
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
Originally posted by CyberShy
It shows you that living a rightious live (there were no laws yet) doesn't mean that your life will be perfect on earth. We have decided to rule our own life, to be our own gods. Therefor God gives satan the freedom to do whatever he wants with Job. Though God limits satan to not let him take Jobs life.
right because he wouldn't want poor job to have to enter into eternal paradise before having a chance to appreciate having every last particle of his life obliterated by an unending stream of tragic calamaties.
Originally posted by CyberShy
It shows you that living a rightious live (there were no laws yet) doesn't mean that your life will be perfect on earth. We have decided to rule our own life, to be our own gods. Therefor God gives satan the freedom to do whatever he wants with Job. Though God limits satan to not let him take Jobs life.
But Job was a servant of God. Satan tells God that Job is only a servant of God because he isn't suffering. So we have to be servants of God even though he allows Satan to cause us suffering. But why does he allow Satan to cause us suffering? The suffering seems to have no ryme or reason. Why isn't God just satisfied that we are his servants without the suffering involved?
Originally posted by DinoDoc
If it is a thread that is asking a real question, wouldn't you be more likely to get a serious and thought out answer by posting it to a Christian themed forum?
Probably, but you'd be more likely to get ill-considered responses that cover the whole gamut of opinions on the subject if you posted the thread on some random gaming forum than on bornagainchristians.com or secularhumanists.com or whatever.
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But look at the people who have posted in this thread, no observant Jews and only a couple of Christians. While what he was looking for would be responses from varieties of Christians, Jews, and related..
Job is a story detailing an answer to the age old question, why do bad things happen to those who follow God. The descriptions of God and Satan can be read just as method to tell the tale (that is not the only way to read it).
Jon Miller
Jon Miller- I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
In any case, I think the Old Testament is really not representative of the beliefs of most modern Christians. It can be a useful reference, so that Aneeshm can get some obscure references in the New Testament and in more recent Christian treatises, but otherwise, the Old Testament has little religious significance in the beliefs of many everyday Christians of today.
Of course, things might be different in the US, where protestants abound, knowing that protestants are more prone to fundamentalism (and thus to really believe in the Old Testament) than other denominations. But Anneshm should remember that Catholics are far more numerous worldwide than protestants, and that there is no unified doctrine of protestantism, with many protestants not taking the OT as face value as well.
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
Re: Re: Re: The god of the old testament has . . . . issues
Originally posted by Cort Haus
From what I remember of Leviticus (the book that long ago made me reject Christianity), it was the so-called 'God' who is precisely advocating this sort of behaviour. Murder, war, slavery, rape - it's all approved of under the right circumstances (ie - to your enemies).
Exactly, I used to be a nice liberal Christian (my church never mentioned all the gruesome parts of the OT) but Leviticus and assorted bits of god-approved butchery in the OT horrified me when I finally found out they existed and I've never looked back...
The Bible: best anti-Christian propaganda ever written.
Of course I could've just ignored the parts of the that offend my personal sensibilities, but once you start watering down a religion that much it gets rather pointless and would be more me making god in my own image than anything else...
Re: Re: Re: Re: The god of the old testament has . . . . issues
Originally posted by Bosh
Of course I could've just ignored the parts of the that offend my personal sensibilities, but once you start watering down a religion that much it gets rather pointless and would be more me making god in my own image than anything else...
My parents ran into that dilemma when they decided to actually read the bible, but halfway through Leviticus they said "**** the haters" and decided that the happy fun parts of the gospels were good enough for them. On the one hand, maybe they "watered down" their religion, and might be going to hell as a result. On the other hand, we haven't gotten into any theological debates (that lasted more than five minutes) since then, so huzzah.
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