Iraq's My Lai

[Pekka]

Geronimo, I don't know if we're talking about units here but there are ALWAYS rogue individual soldiers. That is guaranteed, denying this is sticking ones head in devils butt. We know this to be true.

Unit level, that I don't know. Of course that's far worse but who knows. I claim there is always at least one unit trying to cover up things like this in every single war, country, time and army.
It still isn't OK in my book though. Murder is a murder. Just like torture is torture.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Pekka
Geronimo, I don't know if we're talking about units here but there are ALWAYS rogue individual soldiers. That is guaranteed, denying this is sticking ones head in devils butt. We know this to be true.

Unit level, that I don't know. Of course that's far worse but who knows. I claim there is always at least one unit trying to cover up things like this in every single war, country, time and army.
It still isn't OK in my book though. Murder is a murder. Just like torture is torture.

I cope much better with news of acts of depravity by individual soldiers. However this sure as hell sounds like an entire unit of rotten apples or at the very least a unit with multiple rotten apples and an entire lot of complacent bastards who couldn't bring themselves to turn in or at least anonymously tip off the authorities on the saddistic psycopaths in their unit.

[Pekka]

Well, that's group pressure for you. You might get ... an accident if you're a rat. I understand the pressure of not ratting out, it's dangerous.

If this is unit level killings as opposed to individuals, that needs to be seen when the evidence and investigation is completed.

[Kidlicious]

Re: Iraq's My Lai

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

This shames me as an American.

Why be one then?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Before anyone spouts theories, it might be relevant to their case, and viewpoint, to have a frame of reference.

Easy to sit and swill beer in an air conditioned house somewhere, and shake your head.

Can they (US military) ever do wrong Sloww?

[DaShi]

Because the only other option is Canadian.

[Geronimo]

Re: Re: Iraq's My Lai

Originally posted by Kidicious


Why be one then?

What kind of reply is that? Did imran say he can no longer ever feel anything but shame about being an American now? You're an american right? Every moment of your life is just brimming with pride in everything done on behalf of your country?

[Kidlicious]

Re: Re: Re: Iraq's My Lai

Originally posted by Geronimo


What kind of reply is that? Did imran say he can no longer ever feel anything but shame about being an American now? You're an american right? Every moment of your life is just brimming with pride in everything done on behalf of your country?

I think you took what I said the wrong way. I'm not ashamed, because I don't consider myself one of those people.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Arrian
While it certainly sounds bad, Imran, I'd wait until the investigation is complete and the full facts are known before coming to a conclusion.

You must leave Apolyton forthwith. You have violated one of the core principles of the site.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by DaShi
Because the only other option is Canadian.

When you put it like that, it's hard to disagree.

[DaShi]

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Geronimo
The hardest thing for me is the way that this is like seeing a cockroach in a house. How can I tell if this is an isolated atrocity or if there are perhaps dozens of rogue US military units out there indulging in murder at their whim?

My best guess is that, at this point in time, this is just an isolated incident.

But guerilla wars are very difficult to fight...especially for foreign troops. There is the malignant lure of reacting to seeing your buddies killed in abushes by thinking of the foreign nationals as the enemy. Even tho you've been sent to protect them, the attacks come from behind and from among them.

Unless our troops can exercise an almost unhuman discipline, these types of atrocities will happen more and more.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Arrian
While it certainly sounds bad, Imran, I'd wait until the investigation is complete and the full facts are known before coming to a conclusion.

edit: though I doubt the conclusion will be pride in the Marines here, based on this story.

-Arrian

The problem with keeping hope at this point is that this is not truly the early phase of an investigation. This particular incident has been gathering more and more evidence for weeks now. At this point holding out hope for the investigation to somehow exonerate them seems about as useful as holding out hope for OJ's exoneration in his murder trial. Sure they might be able to get out of being disciplined but the evidence of their guilt is too substantitive for that to seem like an acceptable outcome.

There are just too many credible witnesses and too much variety of iron clad physical evidence.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Wezil


Can they (US military) ever do wrong Sloww?

Absolutely. They can pass by unidentifed people and be killed. They make mistakes almost daily in that regard.

[KrazyHorse]

You suck, Sloww.