Iraq's My Lai

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


As I said earlier in this thread, events like this happened since day one of the invasion, it's just the political climate in US that has changed. Now it's finally reported and debated in the US media.

You are quite right, and every time it has been on bushys personal order

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
This grim news here is more than just the loss of life.

This is a necessary step if the insurgents are going to win. They have to induce our troops into believing the Iraqi people are the enemy, which -- worse case scenario -- is what appears to have happened here.

It's never as concrete as "the Iraqi people are the enemy." It's much more primal.

The problem isn't so much insurgents themselves, as the way we (fail to) work with troops in the field to address the underlying problem - too few troops, in country too long at a time, no particular end in sight, totally inadequate training and education on communications, cultures of the occupied peoples, civil affairs, etc.

The other biggie, when you have forces stretched thin, is a reluctance to take troops out of combat for extended periods, especially for psych reasons, which the military always considers a ***** reason to pull someone off the line. Worse yet, we've been learning these lessons for a long time, and leadership ignores them from one war to the next.

I wouldn't trivialize My Lai, nor would I mischaracterize Haditha, by comparing them.

My Lai was preplanned, systematic slaughter by a real rag-bag bunch (the Americal division in general was pretty near barrel-scrapings). Haditha appears to be a spontaneous reaction and total breakdown of discipline by highly trained volunteer troops. In some ways(spontaneity as opposed to prior intent, and certainly scale), a far less serious issue, but in others, a more ominous root problem.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


As I said earlier in this thread, events like this happened since day one of the invasion, it's just the political climate in US that has changed. Now it's finally reported and debated in the US media.

As I didn't say earlier in this thread, you're full of ****. Proof? Real evidence? Naaah, let's just pull ideological assumptions out of the orifice of our choice.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


As I said earlier in this thread, events like this happened since day one of the invasion, it's just the political climate in US that has changed. Now it's finally reported and debated in the US media.

something like this would have been debated or reported from day one. Possibly it would have taken longer to 'leak' in the earliest days but I don't see any news outlet choosing to sit on the story.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


As I didn't say earlier in this thread, you're full of ****. Proof? Real evidence? Naaah, let's just pull ideological assumptions out of the orifice of our choice.

Until now, event like this has fallen under the categories "colateral damage" or "Darwin Award", if reported at all. From now on it's called "massacre".

By "colateral damage", I mean for example the 16 or so civilians that were killed by an airstrike in a restaurant were Saddam was said to be sighted in the first days of the war.

By "Darwin Award", I mean for example the 19 or so teenagers that were killed when US bombed one of their own abandoned vehicles, while a crowd of civilians were cheering on top of it.

And if you take a look at the Falluja battles, you will find lots of events like this. Most of them were probably by accident, a few evidently by purpose (which caused a lot of fuzz back then), but to the victims, the purpose doesn't matter, they are just as dead. It's the perception of the survivors that really matters.

Because that will have direct impact on what they choose to do about it. They could say "This was a tragic loss, but it was a necessary price to secure our country for the future", or they could say "US are not here to help us, they are here to kill us, **** them, I will join the guerilla!" Their perception of the situation will guide their choice.