Iraq's My Lai

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by notyoueither
The issue wasn't withholding of troops, it was withholding of needed, and promised, military aid (munitions, fuel, and supplies).

Or am I wrong?

We were supposed to do both. Neither was gonna happen given the mood in the country. The government was severely weakened due to the revelations of the Church Committee (spying on U.S. citizens without warrants, and worse--which is where the FISA Act came from) and Watergate.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Lt. Calley got a mere 2 years for ordering the slaughter of ~ 100+ civilians at My Lai, and he didn't even serve the full sentence. AFAIK he was not mistreated in prison.

The Marine Corp guards Marines and Naval personel, I don't know who guards the Army or Air Force.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Bosh
You're a funny man

Funny? Sometimes, depending on the situation.

Idealistic and doing my job so the folks who ***** out "right-wing" and "left-wing" media bias everywhere they look while sitting in their air-conditioned homes and sipping their mochas (to paraphrase Slowwhand) can actually get straight-up, just-the-facts-ma'am news (even if they refuse to acknowledge it), yeah, most definitely.

Gatekeeper

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
If it's verified, SlowwHand, that our Marines went into those homes and killed *women* and *children,* there is no way in God's green earth you can defend that, even with your questionable logic. Period.

And if it's proven those Marines deliberately killed those civilians, it will make Abu Ghraib look like child's play in terms of reaction among the general population in Iraq.

I hope to God none of it's true, because if it is, it's going to give a big boost to at least one wing of the insurgency — the nationalists, and — depending on the religion/ethnicity of those killed — possibly the Sunnis and Shiites as well. Know what's really bad? The Shiites aren't particularly involved in the insurgency right now, except for their anti-Sunni death squads. But if they were to turn their firepower on U.S. troops ... well, nothing good can come out of that. Nothing whatsoever.

Gatekeeper

Interestingly the story doesn't seem to have much appeal in Iraq proper. I guess the daily attrocities there and the fact that for the militias and the insurgents attrocities are policy lessen its impact.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

You realize that it was the GOP that cut and run in Vietnam, right?

Nope, it was congress that cut off the ammo and fuel from RVN.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
This is a tragic event and those particular Marines did in fact murder the innocent civilians in cold blood

The Marines are the greatest infantry force around but they should never EVER be used for "peacekeeping" operations.

The same things that make them so good at fighting are the same things that make them the absolute worst peacekeepers

The marines aren't engaged in peacekeeping, they are engaged in a counterinsurgency.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
You seem to be confusing the cowardice of not putting oneself in harm's way with the cowardice of toeing the Bush Administration line for the past 6 years.

There's no confusion on my part. My entire experience within the media is one based strictly on what I've seen with my co-workers. Yes, there are a few rotten apples — always are with any human endeavor — but the vast majority of them are working to keep a roof over their head, food on the table and the bills paid. In short, they're good people besmirched by a few rotten apples and the interest groups that latch onto said apples and use them to smear everyone involved in journalism. It's disheartening at the least and, at the most, enraging.

We have no idea who you work for since you're not allowed to say anyway.

There's no official prohibition against that. For the most part, I try to avoid getting into media issues outside of the job because, for heaven's sake, I originally came to 'Poly for the glorious game known as CIV!

FOX, CBS, CNN, ABC etc. I'm sure between them, they've lost people on the ground in Iraq too, but unless you've been asleep for the past 6 years, they haven't exactly chided the Bush Administration until very recent months with scandals breaking left and right. The dam is burst, and the MSM seems to be waking from its stupor.

Darn straight they've lost people. It's also a fact that FOX, CBS, CNN, ABC sure as heck aren't "the media." They're an element of it, nothing more. And I have nothing to do with them. I'm more on the print/Internet side of things, and from that angle, I know we've been doing our job at keeping people informed. Whether they choose to read our work or take action after doing so is, of course, entirely up to them.

Gatekeeper

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Sikander
Interestingly the story doesn't seem to have much appeal in Iraq proper. I guess the daily attrocities there and the fact that for the militias and the insurgents attrocities are policy lessen its impact.

That's a very real possibility.

Thing is, the insurgents are showing a real knack for picking up on things like this and using it against our troops. And in this case, if the alleged attack is proven to be true, the insurgents won't even have to twist the facts or make them up in order to benefit their cause.

Gatekeeper

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Sikander


Interestingly the story doesn't seem to have much appeal in Iraq proper. I guess the daily attrocities there and the fact that for the militias and the insurgents attrocities are policy lessen its impact.

Well, the Iraqis probably either already knew about it, or assumed accidental shootings in the past were intentional, and don't care that much about one more shooting.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
If American troops have been ordered back into Vietnam, riots would have torn this country apart and the President who gave the order would have probably been impeached.

You can blame the Democratic Congress.

You can blame the cynical and disaffected American people

You can blame the Vietnamese leadership for responding to our demand for democratic reforms by installing a Thieu-party system.

You can blame the Vietnamese people for not seeing that a Western alliance is better than a communist dictatorship.

But that's the way it was.

Strawman argument.

The commitments that were denied the SV were

1) Ammo; and

2) Air support.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


But in the Nedaverse, the guns should have been turned on the people so they could get in line

Imran, there are people who live in alternative universes here. But it is the commie left who have rewritten history and somehow have educated a whole generation of Americans into believing their lies.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Ned


But it is the commie left who have rewritten history and somehow have educated a whole generation of Americans into believing their lies.

Yeah, because Americans are so left-wing.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


Yeah, because Americans are so left-wing.

They are compared to Ned

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Sikander


The marines aren't engaged in peacekeeping, they are engaged in a counterinsurgency.

Two sides of the same coin and you could put one under the umbrella of the other depending on what semantics you are using

[lightblue]

There was a piece in the Independent over here a few days back on this. It mentioned how investigators had not found any signs of the reported crossfire as the bullet holes were not on the outside of the houses, only on the inside. It also mentioned that the fire team thought responsible could face the death penalty under US military law.