When is it ok to hate someone for their politics?

[Ned]

Originally posted by _BuRjaCi_


I don't mean to be rude, but did you happen to pick up a history book recently; in 1848 fudalism in the clasic sense existed only in Russia and maybe Ottoman Turkey, even in austria the pesants where personaly free.

About the last part...

No doubt.

But that does not mean they could become rich because wealth depended upon land ownership and land ownership was reserved to the landed class. See my earlier post on "primogeniture."

[Ned]

Originally posted by _BuRjaCi_


I have a crazy idea let's like take some money (not a lot but just enugh) from the rich and use it to educate the poor, and oh wait lets use some of that money to help poor sick people get better and to send 0.7% of our BDP to poor countries like we promised in the 70's.
Ain't I smart.

You see progresive taxs is meant to provide the state with the resources to create ecuality of opurtunity; do you truly have ecual opurtunities if you go to a bad state school or live on the streat or can't afford a doctor.

Taxation should be about raising revenue, not about punishing the wealthy. Do you or do you not agree?

[chequita guevara]

The wealthy like to be punished. That's why they hire dominatrixes.

[Ned]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


is Imran actually arguing that safety nets - socailism? Is he actually neglecting that every early socialist theorist denied that private property was a just system? Is he actually neglecting the support for limits on the market, and from folks like Disraeli, and Bismarck?

The welfare state was a natural reaction to the conditions of 19th century capitalism, under the social circumstances of the time. It was quickly adopted as a selling point by the more enlightened conservatives, and by the "left wing" of liberalism (Progressivism, Lloyd George Liberalism, what have you) the actual Socialists had NO CHOICE but to support it, in order to compete for working class votes. You could hardly get the working class interested in you if you were chattering on about the classless society, while the consies and the progressives were talking about health care and limited working hours.

Ogie isnt the one being silly.

Lord, thanks for the history lesson.

In a way it is interesting how traditional liberalism has been conflated with socialism. People are naturally compassionate. So now people think that the only way to be compassionate is to be a socialist and kill capitalism.

BTW, that is what is being taught in today's schools, at least in Kalifornia.

[Ned]

GePap, Jesus was concerned about helping the poor. Early Christians worked to bring rights to the slaves. Etc., etc., etc.

The theory that the pie is fixed in sized and that for the poor to have more they must take from the rich is modern. It is the pith and essence of socialist thinking.

quote:
Originally posted by Ned
As I said before, traditional liberalism, which was born in Christianity, has long concerned itself with the poor. The difference that socialism brings is hatred of the rich. Class warfare.




This is a new one Ned, but just as funny.

I very much doubt Jesus would be as appaled by a progressive tax system like you are.....

Oh, and he did not seem a big fan of free markets either....

So where exactly is the connection between these two?

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap


In realityville, there is not such thing s "Truth", or "Good an Evil".

BUt we all know you certainly don;t live anywhere near Realityville. Its too far from the Nedaverse.

Good point, GePap. In order to get the people to believe commie lies, to actually see five fingers when four are held up, one has to be "educated" to believe that truth is relative and facts are theories.

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The wealthy like to be punished. That's why they hire dominatrixes.

But why dress them like Vikings or Nazi's or the like. Why not dress them like their real tormentors, the commies.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned
GePap, Jesus was concerned about helping the poor. Early Christians worked to bring rights to the slaves. Etc., etc., etc.

The theory that the pie is fixed in sized and that for the poor to have more they must take from the rich is modern. It is the pith and essence of socialist thinking.

You are a work of something, really. Too funny by half.

Its is pathetic thought that in your fantasy world a progressive income tax system is somehow theft. but then, its you, so I should not be surprised.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned


Good point, GePap. In order to get the people to believe commie lies, to actually see five fingers when four are held up, one has to be "educated" to believe that truth is relative and facts are theories.

You do make up some crazy **** don;t you Ned?

Read sometimes. I wrote "Truth" and "Good and Evil" in capital letters. If you are not up to speed, that relates to the concepts.

A fact is just that, a fact. It has no meaning, it just is. Its lower case "truth".

And yes, and Educated man is able to understand that facts are nothing but a compilation of information. "Truth" is only a pattern created from information, a story, human-created meaning. That is what the human mind does, create meaning. That does not change the fact that meaning, and specially something like a concept of Evil, is a human creation, and thus nowhere in the same realm as fact.

Simple quiz Neddy pooh:

Since you believe in "Truth" Neddikins, sho is Right, Jesus, Mohammed, or Buddha? Since they don;t all say the same thing, one of them has to be "Right", the other two at least partially wrong.

Being so wise yourself, tell us which one of those three is "Right", and the facts that supportyour statement.

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap


You are a work of something, really. Too funny by half.

Its is pathetic thought that in your fantasy world a progressive income tax system is somehow theft. but then, its you, so I should not be surprised.

GePap, it is you that is in some kind of denial. The progressive income tax exists not to sole to raise revenue, but to punish the rich, to make them less wealthy, to ****** the creation of wealth.

Now the inheritance tax also has the same intent.

Socialists use taxation to further their agenda, not just to raise taxes. That you deny this places you in la la land.

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap


You do make up some crazy **** don;t you Ned?

Read sometimes. I wrote "Truth" and "Good and Evil" in capital letters. If you are not up to speed, that relates to the concepts.

A fact is just that, a fact. It has no meaning, it just is. Its lower case "truth".

And yes, and Educated man is able to understand that facts are nothing but a compilation of information. "Truth" is only a pattern created from information, a story, human-created meaning. That is what the human mind does, create meaning. That does not change the fact that meaning, and specially something like a concept of Evil, is a human creation, and thus nowhere in the same realm as fact.

Simple quiz Neddy pooh:

Since you believe in "Truth" Neddikins, sho is Right, Jesus, Mohammed, or Buddha? Since they don;t all say the same thing, one of them has to be "Right", the other two at least partially wrong.

Being so wise yourself, tell us which one of those three is "Right", and the facts that supportyour statement.

So, in your world GePap, truth is relative. Just what I said, GePap.

Good and evil depend, of course, upon one's definitions. That is why I say that a commie's definitions are the converse of the ordianary person's definitions.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned


GePap, it is you that is in some kind of denial. The progressive income tax exists not to sole to raise revenue, but to punish the rich, to make them less wealthy, to ****** the creation of wealth.

Now the inheritance tax also has the same intent.

Socialists use taxation to further their agenda, not just to raise taxes. That you deny this places you in la la land.

The rich remain rich. What "punishment" is being taken? If they were being "punished", they would be stripped of their wealth and made poor.

And certainly prograssive taxes help move along a socialist agenda, one in which all human beings are given equal access to basic necessities, like health care, housing, food. I personally think it morally preverse to allow homelessness, hunger, and people dying of simple preventable and curable diseases in a society more than wealthy enough to irradicate those problems.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned

Good and evil depend, of course, upon one's definitions. That is why I say that a commie's definitions are the converse of the ordianary person's definitions.

There is no such thing as an ordinary person.

[Drake Tungsten]

Well, they certainly wouldn't associate with the likes of you, but that doesn't mean they don't exist...

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ned

Imran, did you know the NAZI's created the world's first universal health care system?

I hear that they invented a cure for mental retardation and circumcision.