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With his base eroding away Bush is now backtracking.

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  • With his base eroding away Bush is now backtracking.

    It's the front page story in today's San Diego Union-Tribune. With Bush's poll numbers at an all time low and even conservative Republicans disserting him over Bush's support for a guest working program and the former nomination of his lackey Harriot Myers to the Supreme Court. Congressional Republicans are frantic with fears that Bush's unpopularity will cause them to lose next November's midterm elections and are practically begging the President to do something dramatic to regain the support of the party's right wing base.

    Bush now plans to offer to use a limited number of National Guard soldiers to guard the border with Mexico in order to curb illegal immigration but he is demanding that Congress pass some sort of guest worker program first so that businesses will not be left with a shortage of cheap labor. I actually think this basic concept is good since it balances enforcement with a legal way for employers to get the cheap janitors, cooks, bus boys, and agricultural workers they need. The problem is sending out a few odd National Guardsmen isn't going to secure the nearly 2000 mile long border with Mexico. That would require a lot more troops (likely several hundred thousand), perminent bases along the border, and even a border fence covering the entire way.

    Bush's measure wouldn't do that so it is doomed to be nothing more then a failure which he will offer as a fig leaf to the right wing extremists. Does that mean there is no hope in stopping illegal immigration? The anwser is to really go ater the employers since these people are coming looking for jobs. Congress has deliberately made the fines to employers nothing more then peanuts and there are hardly any officers to enforce the labor laws so it isn't like many employers are getting fined. Making companies who hire illegals pay crushing fines, we're talking bankrupting the company sized fines, is the only way to get employers to stop hiring illegal workers under the table and not paying taxes. This must be accompanied with a new national ID card which must be very hard to forge or tamper with so that employers can't claim they thought fake documents were real or that they were confused by what constituted legal employment documents.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

  • #2
    They're not going to vote for him again.

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    • #3
      I don't think keeping out the brownies warrants sending out several hundred thousand troops. That's just me though I guess.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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      • #4
        The real problem with national guardsmen, is that the National Guard isn't a full time force - it is composed of civilians who joined expecting a few weeks a year of service at most, barring a national emergency. Asking the NG to take on a more full-time aspect, on top of the absurd number of NG/Reserves called already in Iraq and Afghanistan, will only discourage MORE people from joining the Guard... and piss off the people already in it.

        If they wanted to join the Army full time, they'd have done so and reaped tens of thousands in bonus pay ...
        <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
        I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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        • #5
          Well, there is also the issue of the military conducting civilian policing duties, something is is not supposed to ever do except in times of emergency.
          If you don't like reality, change it! me
          "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
          "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
          "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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          • #6
            They are digging up Harriet Miers again?

            That's old news. I'm suspicious of this article as representing the concerns of Bush's conservative base, it seems to just be the usual liberal talking points.

            I haven't heard anyone talking about Harriet Miers since Alito got in.
            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
              They are digging up Harriet Miers again?

              That's old news. I'm suspicious of this article as representing the concerns of Bush's conservative base, it seems to just be the usual liberal talking points.

              I haven't heard anyone talking about Harriet Miers since Alito got in.
              You haven't read, then, my posts in the Bush poll numbers thread.
              http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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              • #8
                Oerdin, I told you so. The right is more than upset with Bush for the reasons stated. Harriet Miers was more than offensive to his base. Ditto his weakness on a number of hot-button issues like illegals.

                But, given your last paragraph, what would the right wing extremist want to do with illegals that you don't want to do your self?
                http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                • #9
                  Seems to me we should just annex Mexico and be done with it BAM! No more illegal immigration.
                  "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
                  -Joan Robinson

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                  • #10
                    BTW, the more I think about it, the more I think the status quo is just peachy, provided we do something about giving welfare to illegals that even Americans do not get.
                    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Whoha
                      They're not going to vote for him again.
                      I hear this and I a shake my head. There will be two more Congressional elections while Bush is in office and most of the time people vote on party lines according to how they feel the President is doing. If the President is doing well then the President's party gets a boost in Congressional elections and the opposite it also true.
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ned
                        Oerdin, I told you so. The right is more than upset with Bush for the reasons stated. Harriet Miers was more than offensive to his base. Ditto his weakness on a number of hot-button issues like illegals.

                        But, given your last paragraph, what would the right wing extremist want to do with illegals that you don't want to do your self?
                        They want to deport 12 million people; I do not. Since most of them now have kids who are legal citizens and American companies need their labor they should stay but be required to work their way through a process to get legal status. Where I agree with the right wingers is that we do need more enforcement to prevent yet more law breakers from coming it. Enforcement against illegal workers and against employers who hire them. I also think we need a guest worker program or maybe even just increased legal immigration to get more legal workers into the country to fill the jobs illegal workers used to do.
                        Last edited by Dinner; May 14, 2006, 05:56.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                        • #13
                          I think Bush should take a year off. Maybe go overseas. Really get to know himself.
                          “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                          "Capitalism ho!"

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                          • #14
                            I think Bush should take a year off. Maybe go overseas. Really get to know himself.
                            I don't know why, but I found this amusing.
                            "You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James Napier

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                            • #15
                              What do they call those things around medieval castles, with water and crocodiles in them? Build one of those along the southern border. Heck, northern too.
                              I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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